Results 1 to 13 of 13

Thread: Bad Axe "Hybrid Cut" Filing?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    116

    Bad Axe "Hybrid Cut" Filing?

    I just ordered some Bad Axe saws. (Tenon, Dovetail, and Carcase). I elected for the "recommended" hybrid cut on the Carcase and Tenon saws... but now I have a doubt.

    Has anyone used this filing? Is it better than a traditional cross cut filing for these applications as Bad Axe claims?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    South Coastal Massachusetts
    Posts
    5,362
    I have a 16" back saw from Bad Axe.
    When there are lots of little teeth like this, I file my old saws rip cut with progressively more take.

    The hybrid filing from Bad Axe feels much the same to me.
    It's easier to start than a traditional crosscut, and cuts imperceptibly slower.

    If you've never owned a brand new (freshly sharpened) crosscut saw, the hybrid should feel fine.

    Their saws have what I consider perfect set - never binding, clear sawdust at any depth and cut dead straight.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    White Lake, Michigan
    Posts
    48
    The main drawback, as far as I am concerned, is that to sharpen the saw with a hybrid cut requires far more expertise than a "normal" cross-cut configuration. If you have those skills you'll be happy. If not, you'll have to send it to them, and the last time I did that it took about 10 weeks to come back.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Broadview Heights, OH
    Posts
    619
    Erich,

    The hybrid teeth are a compromise spanning the gap between rip and crosscut teeth. Typical rip teeth are filed straight across (no fleam) and have a rake angle of 0-8 degrees, depending on preference. 0 degrees cuts fast and quick, but requires experience in the hand as they can hang with too much pressure. The closer to 8 you get, the less tendency to hang up in the cut.

    Cross cut teeth typically have 12-15 degrees of rake, and 20 degrees of fleam. Again, the more relaxed the rake, as in moving to 15 degrees, the less likely to hang in the cut. 20 degrees of fleam is the standard for most crosscut teeth.

    The Hybrid teeth, so called, have 10 degrees of rake, so it's either a very relaxed rip, or super aggressive crosscut and 12 degrees of fleam. I think Bad Axe says it best:

    So is hybrid-cut THE saw-filing panacea? Heck, no. Nothing beats dedicated rip for tenon cheek ripping, or dedicated x-cut for tenon shoulders and carcase work. But--if you're new to hand tools and on a budget, a hybrid-filing will keep you from having to buy two saws up front. And, you'll be quite surprised at how effectively this filing rips, and how clean a finish the filing offers when used in x-cut mode. On the other hand, if you're pretty far down the slippery slope of buying and using non-corded saws, and have purchased simply too many saws for any one spouse to put with (and are now confronted with the need to SIMPLIFY your nest o' saws), then that's where hybrid-cut can also come in quite handy as you 'choose' to adopt a minimalist approach to severing wood fiber.

    I second this view heartily. I personally don't see the need for this sort of tooth, and by the makers own admission, it will not cut as well as a dedicated saw. Sounds like you ordered two saws. A great starter set is a 12" crosscut (real crosscut teeth) in about 13 point and a 8-10 point rip in 14" length. Those two saws will cut anything you need but dovetails. You might consider a change up of your order. I personally can't imagine ripping with fleam on my saw teeth. I think it's a solution in search of a problem personally.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Dickinson, Texas
    Posts
    6,624
    Blog Entries
    1
    Visit this site.

    https://www.ebay.com/b/Old-Hand-Saws.../bn_7023262385

    Pick out a used saw, have it re-toothed if necessary, make a nice handle , sharpen it, and you will know all the answers.
    And you will enjoy the experience. You can make it a hybrid cut if you desire and then if you don't like the result, change it.

    After that, you will not questions about hand saws.
    Last edited by lowell holmes; 09-23-2019 at 12:17 PM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Fairbanks AK
    Posts
    147
    I did most of the bad axe hybrid grind to one of my handsaws, a 26" if I recall.

    The bad news is this grind shows me that I am not very good at setting teeth yet, in fact I am so bad at setting teeth I didn't bother trying to grind facets on the outside of each tooth, so really my handsaw isn't the "complete" hybrid grind.

    The good news is even without the facets on the side this grind rips better than any of my crosscut saws, and crosscuts better than any of my rip saws. And it is unmatched for resawing figured hardwood in my shop with my limited experience.

    On an angle for angle basis there is a similar grind or recipe specified by Leonard Lee in his sharpening book, I haven't tried that one.

    I hope to come back to this in the next couple weeks. I have one more trip over the lawn to gather up the last of the leaves, and then a brief respite from outdoor chores until it is time to shovel the driveway.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Northeast PA
    Posts
    509
    Personally I'm not really a fan of the "hybrid" or sash saw style filing. I have used Bad Axe saws before with this tooth style and was not terribly impressed. Like Pete said, since you're buying 2 saws, it really doesn't make sense to not have one filed rip and the other filed cross.
    ---Trudging the Road of Happy Destiny---

  8. #8
    In 2011 I won a sawing contest using a Bad Axe tenon saw. As a consequence, I took home the saw as a prize. It had the hybrid filing. When it came time to sharpen it again I sharpened it as a rip saw. All of my back saws are sharpened rip. If you don't like the saw as it arrives you can easily change it.

    A generation ago all new saws were sharpened cross cut and all had too much set and too much rake. They needed work right away to make them functional. The factory grind is of little importance; what matters is how you maintain the saw.

    Of the six saws in the Seaton Chest (1796), five were filled straight across (rip) and one, the tenon saw, was filled with very slight fleam. Nicholson (1812) singles out the tenon saw as the one that was used exclusively for crosscutting.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Greeley, CO
    Posts
    76
    The owner of Bad Axe frequently posts in this thread:
    https://www.lumberjocks.com/topics/302775

    Why not ask him directly? He might have some interesting input for you.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    116
    Here is what I ordered... not to late to change it.

    Bad Axe 16" Tenon Saw $100 Down Payment
    Item# Bad Axe 16" Tenon Saw ($275 base price) Filing: Hybrid-Cut
    Pitch: 12 ppi
    Sawback: Titanium Nitride-Plated Steel (add $50)
    Species: Hickory
    Fasteners: Brass Slotted-Nuts
    Size: (R)
    Assembly Code: BATW16H12BrHBrSl $100.00 USD 1 $100.00 USD
    Bad Axe 14" 'Bayonet' Precision Carcase Saw $100 Down Payment
    Item# Bad Axe 14" 'Bayonet' Precision Carcase Saw ($260 base price) Filing: Hybrid-Cut
    Pitch: 14 ppi
    Sawback: Titanium Nitride-Plated Steel (add $50)
    Species: Cherry (add $20)
    Fasteners: Brass Slotted-Nuts
    Size: BATW14H14BrCBrSl_Bayonet $100.00 USD 1 $100.00 USD
    Bad Axe 12" Stiletto Dovetail Saw Down Payment
    Item# Bad Axe 12" Stiletto Dovetail Saw ($245 base price) Filing: Rip-cut
    Pitch: 15 ppi
    Gauge: .018
    Sawback: Titanium Nitride-Plated Steel (add $50)
    Species: Cherry (add $20)
    Fasteners: Brass Slotted-Nuts
    Size: (R)
    Assembly Code: BATW12R15+BrCBrSlDT_Stiletto

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Austin Texas
    Posts
    1,543
    Everybody else has said it all up above Eric, but as you ask, I will say that I think a pure rip filing on the tenon saw is a better choice for that particular saw. Sawing tenon cheeks is a rip operation all the way. Having said that, I don't think that you have made a bad choice and can always (as Warren says) re file any saw any way you want down the road. It seems to me that folks tend to like crosscutting filed saws (and perhaps the hybrid file) because they can be easier to start in a cut than a rip filed saw. A little time using saws regularly will eliminate the perceived rip cut saw "grab" at the start of the cut. Whatever you decide on, I think that you will have some great saws showing up soon.
    David

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    107
    I agree with Pete and Brian. I have two Bad Axe saws: Tenon filed rip and Sash filed crosscut. I also have an Adria dovetail which is, of course, filed rip and a Disston carcass filed crosscut. Go figure, in all aspects the Disston is the best cutting of the bunch. But the choice of filing is whatever you feel most comfortable using.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    116
    I just adjusted the order to go with Rip for the Tenon saw and x-cut for the Carcase saw.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •