Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 48

Thread: Scary Shaper

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Bellingham, WA
    Posts
    1,863
    Quote Originally Posted by Leo Graywacz View Post
    If you think that's scary wait until you do your first templated cathedral panel with that cutter spinning in the open air with no fence to be seen.
    Yikes! I like to just back the fence out of the way to have a convenient pivot/friction point and some dust collection. A Panelcrafter makes it feel a lot safer, too.
    JR

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R. Rutter View Post
    Yikes! I like to just back the fence out of the way to have a convenient pivot/friction point and some dust collection. A Panelcrafter makes it feel a lot safer, too.
    Absolutely. At the very least. There are some more elaborate guarding option available commercially from Aigner and others but they can be shop made too.

    B
    https://www.youtube.com/c/DovetailTimberworks

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Griswold Connecticut
    Posts
    6,519
    Quote Originally Posted by Osvaldo Cristo View Post
    Nightmare. I am out.

    My respect for people that win their lives working with a such tool!
    Osvaldo
    No nightmares.
    The shaper, or spindle moulder, is a safe machine when used properly. It got a bad rap because people weren't careful with it, performed questionable operations, and got themselves hurt in the process. Same as a table saw. It is a machine that needs to be respected though. The cutter heads, even on a small shaper, like Steve just purchased, will have a fairly significant rotational mass, so the energy is there.
    To address Leo's statement, if I may. Leo, like myself, has operated the shaper for many, many, years by hand feeding it. This is the way I was taught to use it actually. I don't know that I have never had some type of guard over a cutter head. There's always been something there, even if it was just a dust collection hood. I now have a power feeder and it's pretty cool. I haven't used it a lot, but it does make many operations safer, and easier. If you do perform template work on a shaper, your forms need to be robustly built, have good positive hand holds, and control of the material. If it's good enough for a router table, it's probably not anywhere near good enough for a shaper.
    I was taught to use one in wood shop, an industrial arts type course in the US, that I took for 6 years in middle school and high school. If a bunch of teenage boys in the 70's could learn to use it, and not get hurt, anything is possible.
    "The first thing you need to know, will likely be the last thing you learn." (Unknown)

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    WV
    Posts
    3,593
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Cutler View Post
    is a safe machine when used properly
    The same can be said for Dynamite, Uranium, or a utility knife. I would argue that if someone is scared or see's a tool as a nightmare, it likely is one.

    Feeder operations are gravy. the only thing that will be roached is your tooling, your feeder, or your fence/fixture.

    Seeing guys to this day hand feed easings, basically operating like a human 5 axis CNC, I will pass, even though it looks effortless.

    The things that look the easiest will likely be the hardest things you ever attempt in your life.
    Sometimes I just want to look at pretty pictures,... Thats when I go to the Turners Forum

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Griswold Connecticut
    Posts
    6,519
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Bolton View Post
    The same can be said for Dynamite, Uranium, or a utility knife. I would argue that if someone is scared or see's a tool as a nightmare, it likely is one.

    Feeder operations are gravy. the only thing that will be roached is your tooling, your feeder, or your fence/fixture.

    Seeing guys to this day hand feed easings, basically operating like a human 5 axis CNC, I will pass, even though it looks effortless.

    The things that look the easiest will likely be the hardest things you ever attempt in your life.

    Mark
    I'm done with the dynamite and nuclear weapons. Still working with uranium. They took the utility knives away a few years back here at work.

    You are right though. If a person is uncomfortable with a machine, they shouldn't be using it.
    "The first thing you need to know, will likely be the last thing you learn." (Unknown)

  6. #21
    There is no reason to say a beginner can't grind their own knives for a shaper and be safe with it. As long as they follow some simple basic rules almost anyone can do it. Making your own tooling is a special benefit to woodworking. How often do you see someone trying to find a router bit that matches the woodwork in their house. More often than not the woodwork was never done with a router but a proprietary molding made by a small shop not in business anymore. I bought my first shaper more than 30 years ago and bought a collar and bars of steel and made my own. I had worked for a company that used similar cutters and noticed the old man that was tending to them always made the knives alike and weighed the knives every time he sharpened them. I've also worked for places that would use one knife as the cutting knife and would put just any knife on the other side. They would run out of balance, noisy and very dangerous. This type of attitude toward the shaper is what gives the machine a bad reputation and why knives have been thrown.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Toronto Ontario
    Posts
    9,647
    A shaper is an extremely versatile and safe machine, if used with proper tooling and guards.

    I just hosted a Felder shaper seminar last Saturday, it's always an eye opener for people new to the machine.

    MAN rated tooling, proper guards, work holding devices and a stock feeder allow you to use the machine to it's capabilities while remaining safe.

    Regards, Rod.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Dickinson, Texas
    Posts
    6,787
    Blog Entries
    1
    After severely cutting my thumb almost to the bone, I use push sticks on any tool that blades or cutters come close. If a lot of chips are flying, I also wear safety glasses.

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R. Rutter View Post
    Yikes! I like to just back the fence out of the way to have a convenient pivot/friction point and some dust collection. A Panelcrafter makes it feel a lot safer, too.
    A starting pin with a long infeed of your template makes everything pretty safe. I even have a plastic guard that goes on top of the cutter that has a bearing that pretty much makes it as safe as it can get. The biggest safety item when you are shaping "freehand" like that is razor sharp cutters. That way they cut and never grab. Good hand holds on the template help a lot too.

    I've only used a pro template system once and it was nice. But not nice enough to spend that kind of money on when particleboard and some good handles and hold downs will do the job just as well. But if you plan on doing a lot of cathedral panels or curved top panels it's really nice to have all the templates precut for the panels and the rails.

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    WV
    Posts
    3,593
    Quote Originally Posted by lowell holmes View Post
    After severely cutting my thumb almost to the bone, I use push sticks on any tool that blades or cutters come close. If a lot of chips are flying, I also wear safety glasses.
    As it applies to really serious shaper fed operations, a push stick is simply a lever that gives the machine more advantage than you have. Its often times the cause of a different injury though its a better injury than being engaged in the cutterhead.
    Sometimes I just want to look at pretty pictures,... Thats when I go to the Turners Forum

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Huntington, Vermont
    Posts
    968
    The powerfeed is key to safe shaper operation, and it is not limited to straight cuts. I have often used a powerfeed with one wheel and manual steering on curved work. I have done plenty of cuts with hand guided templates, but if the powerfeed can be used I do so. Extra length on the template and workpiece are helpful to avoid snipe. If the work runs away from the bearing, collar or fence I can run it again. Complex curves may be better guided by hand, but moderate ones do well with a powerfeed.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    US Virgin Islands
    Posts
    3,287
    Blog Entries
    6
    I was nearly killed by a shaper. A guy put the wrong knives for the head and it threw a knife at me at 8000 RPM. I was saved by my overalls- the knife hit a button on the overalls and bent the button which made it hit me flat instead of knife edge first, and it ricocheted off my chest, flew 40 feet, and put a hole in a sheetmetal wall. I was left with a massive bruise on my chest in the shape of the cutter. To this day I have real concerns whenever I use a shaper. The impact was like getting kicked by a horse in the chest. It knocked the wind out of me and I couldn’t talk or breathe. The other cutter went into the table and left a nice gash in the solid steel table.

    The button on the chest and the multiple layers of denim in the front pocket are why I’m still around to tell the story.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Northwestern Connecticut
    Posts
    7,149
    Be safe. No tool has the potential to put more cutter in the wood. I don't like push sticks, feels more like playing shuffle board than proper stock control. Feeders are great, feather boards, pressure boards, guards to keep something between your hands and a tragedy are advisable. Jigs with hold downs are essential for holding small parts, curved work, etc. Its a great tool, way better results than a router for most shaping operations, you really need to understand the forces at work and obey the rules. The aforementioned book and the Lonnie Byrd shaper book are good places to start for basic safety info and some good set up ideas. Enjoy it!
    "A good miter set up is like yoga pants: it makes everyone's butts look good." Prashun Patel

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Griswold Connecticut
    Posts
    6,519
    Wow, some scary incidents brought up in this thread!
    I think were doing the OP, and others that might read this thread, a disservice by unconsciously steering them away from what can arguably be one of the most versatile and useful machines in a small home shop.
    Of course you can get hurt on a shaper,as you can on other machines,but there are safe and effective ways to operate the machine that put your hands nowhere near the cutter head. If you're hands are within an unprotected hand's span from that cutter head, you need to stop and think about what you're getting ready to do, because there is another way to do it.
    Push sticks are effective, but only when used in concert with other devices, such as vertical and horizontal guide boards. If a person is doing something that puts them at risk of a "kickback" on a shaper, something is definitely wrong with your body position and method.
    Any machine can be unsafe when used improperly. Used properly, the shaper, or spindle moulder, is no more, or less, safe than any other machine in the shop.
    "The first thing you need to know, will likely be the last thing you learn." (Unknown)

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    WV
    Posts
    3,593
    I dont think anyone will be scared off a shaper any more than they would be scared off a table saw. A healthy dose of respect is never a bad thing. As the OP stated, most sane minded people who even get a small 3/4" spindle shaper are a bit taken back when they see a cutter whip up for the first time. I know I was. Then you get to 7" and larger cutters and you tend to stand there for a second as you ponder your sanity. There is a reason why its often one of the later tools added to small shops and a huge part of that is the expense of the machine, tooling, and feeder, but the other part is a healthy dose of fear.
    Sometimes I just want to look at pretty pictures,... Thats when I go to the Turners Forum

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •