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Thread: "Drop cutting" on a shaper

  1. #16
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    I was doing just this last weekend - a drop cut on the shaper. It was small 3/16" grooves for box panels.

    I could not get comfortable with it (it did grab on me once as well), so went to the router instead.

    They were relatively short though (12" ish), longer pieces would keep the fingers farther away. Having the stops that others have shown here would definitely help, and as mentioned provide a guide so that the piece does not twist when you are entering/exiting the cut.

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beckett View Post
    I was doing just this last weekend - a drop cut on the shaper. It was small 3/16" grooves for box panels.

    I could not get comfortable with it (it did grab on me once as well), so went to the router instead.

    They were relatively short though (12" ish), longer pieces would keep the fingers farther away. Having the stops that others have shown here would definitely help, and as mentioned provide a guide so that the piece does not twist when you are entering/exiting the cut.
    In this case, building a holder/fixture as in the video would help.
    https://www.youtube.com/c/DovetailTimberworks

  3. #18
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    Dec 2018
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    Pennsburg, PA
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    I got it done. Thanks for all the help. The challenge was the length of the pieces. I'll upload some pics later
    Jack

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Calhoon View Post
    Iíve watched that video and think it is pretty lame. The safe way to do this on the shaper is to have a wide stop at the tail and drop the front in with the tail supported. This way you can ease into the cut without any grabbing or burning.
    Joe
    I don't know that I agree with "lame", but it is "antiquated". it's definitely not a video for use in a production environment.
    It was the concept of using a tail stop, or back stop, to control the angle that the material would meet the cutter head at, that I was referring to. Each situation would be different.
    I don't know that I would have used my hands, as was done in that video. The times I've done it, I've made a small jig to control the material and keep my hands away.
    Do you have a shaper video on you tube? I've watched the series Brent put up on you tube, and for some reason I thought I had heard you too had a video.
    "The first thing you need to know, will likely be the last thing you learn." (Unknown)

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Cutler View Post
    Joe
    I don't know that I agree with "lame", but it is "antiquated". it's definitely not a video for use in a production environment.
    It was the concept of using a tail stop, or back stop, to control the angle that the material would meet the cutter head at, that I was referring to. Each situation would be different.
    I don't know that I would have used my hands, as was done in that video. The times I've done it, I've made a small jig to control the material and keep my hands away.
    Do you have a shaper video on you tube? I've watched the series Brent put up on you tube, and for some reason I thought I had heard you too had a video.
    It's a pretty good video overall though some of the tooling is no longer accepted in the UK. It's not perfect and I also wouldn't consider it complete because there are a few other (better) ways of going about things than how he did them, though from what I have seen out there in terms of techniques and practices on this side of the pond, I think a lot of people would benefit from watching even this imperfect video! It focuses on shop-made jigs for things which are more budget conscious for smaller operations like you say. The Eric Stephenson book is very good. I first saw it on an instructor's shelf in the UK.
    Last edited by brent stanley; 09-20-2019 at 5:01 PM.
    https://www.youtube.com/c/DovetailTimberworks

  6. #21
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    Brent

    Definitely not complete.
    I've seen some scary stuff done with shapers. Guilty of some of them too.
    There are some frightening shaper videos on the internet. There's is one with some middle eastern workers, using a reversible glue joint cutter, making cutting boards, is cringe worthy.
    I'll have to look up the Stephenson book.
    "The first thing you need to know, will likely be the last thing you learn." (Unknown)

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Cutler View Post
    Brent

    Definitely not complete.
    I've seen some scary stuff done with shapers. Guilty of some of them too.
    There are some frightening shaper videos on the internet. There's is one with some middle eastern workers, using a reversible glue joint cutter, making cutting boards, is cringe worthy.
    I'll have to look up the Stephenson book.
    This one: https://amzn.to/34URLfe

    It's a great reference full of great ideas. You'll love it.

    B
    https://www.youtube.com/c/DovetailTimberworks

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Cutler View Post
    Joe
    I don't know that I agree with "lame", but it is "antiquated". it's definitely not a video for use in a production environment.
    It was the concept of using a tail stop, or back stop, to control the angle that the material would meet the cutter head at, that I was referring to. Each situation would be different.
    I don't know that I would have used my hands, as was done in that video. The times I've done it, I've made a small jig to control the material and keep my hands away.
    Do you have a shaper video on you tube? I've watched the series Brent put up on you tube, and for some reason I thought I had heard you too had a video.
    Hi Mike,
    in the video he shows dropping in from the front. You will get away with this on small cuts but gets very dangerous on larger cuts even with a back stop. You should have a wide stop at the back and ease the back in. As my photos show.
    Yes, I think for the most part his methods are not so good.

    I have a Utube channel
    https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCZ2uL...cpQwrCQ/videos
    Its also pretty lame.... working on getting the quality and editing up on these. I have done some for Rangate that are better.

    I have a bunch of the BGHM books that are in German but have good pictures.
    I found a online link for one of these that shows safety techniques for all machines.

    https://www.bghm.de/fileadmin/user_u...b_BG_96.18.pdf

  9. #24
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    Dec 2018
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    Pennsburg, PA
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    Here was the set up. Wound up being very simple. Poplar fence extensions with a stop block at the desired distance. I cut into the poplar so that I could see exactly where the knives would enter and exit the material so that I could pull my measurements off of there instead of guessing and checking, and also act as somewhat of a zero clearance to reduce tear-out. I stupidly enough pulled from the wrong side so I ruined two pieces of mahogany before I realized what I did wrong. I should have pulled from the far side.
    Worked pretty well with decent results. It would have been easier with two people to support the piece at the beginning and end of the cut... a table extension would have also been beneficial.
    IMG_5645.jpg

    IMG_5646.jpg

    IMG_5647.jpg

  10. #25
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    Mar 2006
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    Huntington, Vermont
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    Jack,

    What do you mean by "pulled from the wrong side"?

    A roller stand or similar supporting the stock front and back would be helpful.

    Joe,

    Thanks once more for the pictures and explanation of your technique. I have gotten away with dropping in from the front with a narrow backstop on light cuts but in the future will use a wide rear backstop and pivot in from the front edge.

    There are plenty of cuts best done on the shaper, but I would use my cnc router by choice for this.

  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Jenness View Post
    Jack,

    What do you mean by "pulled from the wrong side"?

    A roller stand or similar supporting the stock front and back would be helpful.

    Joe,

    Thanks once more for the pictures and explanation of your technique. I have gotten away with dropping in from the front with a narrow backstop on light cuts but in the future will use a wide rear backstop and pivot in from the front edge.

    There are plenty of cuts best done on the shaper, but I would use my cnc router by choice for this.
    The geometry doesn't always allow for pivoting at the cutter end depending on projection/diameter of cutter, length of the piece and how close to the end the moulding is to start but you can often make it work.
    Last edited by brent stanley; 09-21-2019 at 6:11 PM.
    https://www.youtube.com/c/DovetailTimberworks

  12. #27
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    Brent,

    I see your point. If the start of the cut is that close it would be a good idea to begin with an over-length piece. I think Joe's recommendation is good in principle though as pivoting from the rear tends to invite a catch

  13. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Jenness View Post
    Brent,

    I see your point. If the start of the cut is that close it would be a good idea to begin with an over-length piece. I think Joe's recommendation is good in principle though as pivoting from the rear tends to invite a catch
    Absolutely, that's why in post #4 I suggested exactly that, I'm just saying that sometimes the geometry doesn't cooperate so you would have to start with some trim like you say, if that's an option.
    https://www.youtube.com/c/DovetailTimberworks

  14. #29
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    Dec 2018
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    Pennsburg, PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Jenness View Post
    Jack,

    What do you mean by "pulled from the wrong side"?
    I pulled my measurement from the near side vs the far side.

  15. #30
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    Dec 2008
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    Ouray Colorado
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Jenness View Post

    Joe,

    Thanks once more for the pictures and explanation of your technique. I have gotten away with dropping in from the front with a narrow backstop on light cuts but in the future will use a wide rear backstop and pivot in from the front edge.

    There are plenty of cuts best done on the shaper, but I would use my cnc router by choice for this.
    Kevin,
    I dropped in from the front for many years also without incident. We even had the Aigner stops for a while before I looked at the instructions on the stop. It is a lot safer and the cut quality better because you can ease it in without grabbing. Another problem with coming in from the front if you have good dust collection it will suck the board in quickly and be chip out prone.

    I dont have any issues if the chamfers or flutes are close to the end. Just bridge the opening with the fence fingers or a shop made bridging fence with a wide backstop.
    If you look toward the end of the video you will see the stop turned to get the wide width needed for the backstop.

    Agree that CNC is the best solution if you have one.


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=luo-ZEfd088

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