"Drop cutting" on a shaper

[Jack Hovanec]

Hey guys,
I am working on a project that requires three mahogany stop-fluted half columns. The columns are 6 3/4 wide and I already got a knife ground that will do two flutes at a time (There are 4 total flutes on the face, 1/2" radius).
My question is: how does one safely and efficiently "drop cut" on a shaper while the material is on edge, and then terminate the cut before the end? I ran a couple of trials just by using the end of my fence as a pivot but the shaper really wants to grab ahold of the material. Anyone have a jig for this? I know the best way to do this would be a W&H style molder but I don't have one.
Thanks
Jack

[ChrisA Edwards]

I would like to do something similar to match some existing house trim. I have a shaper and also have a ShopFox Moulder, just curious how you would do it on a W&M Moulder with a continuous power feed.

Just thinking about this, if I was to do it on my shaper, I would make multiple, very shallow cuts that would allow me to pivot in the left end and pivot out the right end.

Another thought, using a power feeder and a complete sacrificial fence, first would be to mark where the cut should start and end on the left and right side of the fence. Then with the cutter head completely behind the fence, clamp the work piece, centered to the fence and slowly move the fence back to bring the cutter through the fence and into the work piece to the desired depth . Power off the shaper and place the power feeder against the back of the work piece. Remove the clamps, power up the shaper and use the power feeder to climb cut back to the left fence mark and then reverse the power feeder and cut to the right fence mark, then power off the shaper. I have a new power feeder that has speed control as well as forward and reverse, but I haven't used it yet. Is this feasible?

[brent stanley]

It's a slightly advanced procedure, and tough to explain without diagrams or pictures and I never think to take pictures of these things. I'm also the last person I know without a smart phone so it's harder without a camera in your pocket all the time.

At the very least you need a stop at each end of the travel. One for it to rest against as you pivot in and one for when you pivot out. This gives you a lot more control than free handing. If the piece is longer than your fence, then you need to rig something up to achieve that. I like to have my pivot at the front and slide in and out from the back when it works. This requires a long stop that you can slide in on. Joe has lots of pictures of this. Depending on the size of the piece, sometimes you want a holding fixture with integral handles.

This is a great reference if you don't have it already.

https://amzn.to/34URLfe

B

[Jack Hovanec]

Brent,
These are good suggestions. The stop would definitely be helpful, but these columns are a little over 6 feet long. I am thinking that I will need to build an extension like you mentioned. I like the idea of have that stop to prevent the cutter from pushing the material back towards me. I did this in some trials and the result was sub-par at best (lots of bumps and ridges on the profile).

[brent stanley]

It doesn't have to be pretty, but should probably be locked/clamped to the table so nothing can move relative to one another.

[Bradley Gray]

I have also done this on a table saw with a moulding head - fairly easy and not scary. Hone the cutters first, sand after.

I have a W&H machine - no idea how that could work.

Shaper sounds scary.

[Lee Schierer]

I'd use a hand held router and some guides. No chance of a kick back with a router. Dropping a board down on a moving cutter or blade is extremely dangerous.

[Mike Cutler]

Go to the 19 minute mark of this video. Don't let the title put you off. I've been using a shaper for a long time, and still find this video valuable.
I've used the same concept to do much larger pieces.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n6yTHMBX54

[Joe Calhoon]

I’ve watched that video and think it is pretty lame. The safe way to do this on the shaper is to have a wide stop at the tail and drop the front in with the tail supported. This way you can ease into the cut without any grabbing or burning.
57B35107-E734-4978-BA2F-A10A887F4881.jpg
Several years ago we did the interior of a Victorian house that had hundreds of stop chamfers and flutes on the casings and doors. Here is the pattern for the casings, they were all 8 to 10’ long. The chamfers all got squared with a chisel. I bought the Aigner jig for that job but very simple to shop make stops and tables for this
6279EE3B-E62B-4C9A-B43E-FF28F5C8B71A.jpg
Here is a example of a drop cut on a double hung sash.
0A1DFEE0-4F30-4A3E-B849-DC0F85A610F7.jpg
If it only stops at the tail you can just use a stop at the end.
57C6DAB0-D0CE-44A6-853F-53F9DEDCF0FC.jpg

[Mike Cutler]

I’ve watched that video and think it is pretty lame. The safe way to do this on the shaper is to have a wide stop at the tail and drop the front in with the tail supported. This way you can ease into the cut without any grabbing or burning.

Joe
I don't know that I agree with "lame", but it is "antiquated". it's definitely not a video for use in a production environment.
It was the concept of using a tail stop, or back stop, to control the angle that the material would meet the cutter head at, that I was referring to. Each situation would be different.
I don't know that I would have used my hands, as was done in that video. The times I've done it, I've made a small jig to control the material and keep my hands away.
Do you have a shaper video on you tube? I've watched the series Brent put up on you tube, and for some reason I thought I had heard you too had a video.

[brent stanley]

Joe
I don't know that I agree with "lame", but it is "antiquated". it's definitely not a video for use in a production environment.
It was the concept of using a tail stop, or back stop, to control the angle that the material would meet the cutter head at, that I was referring to. Each situation would be different.
I don't know that I would have used my hands, as was done in that video. The times I've done it, I've made a small jig to control the material and keep my hands away.
Do you have a shaper video on you tube? I've watched the series Brent put up on you tube, and for some reason I thought I had heard you too had a video.

It's a pretty good video overall though some of the tooling is no longer accepted in the UK. It's not perfect and I also wouldn't consider it complete because there are a few other (better) ways of going about things than how he did them, though from what I have seen out there in terms of techniques and practices on this side of the pond, I think a lot of people would benefit from watching even this imperfect video! It focuses on shop-made jigs for things which are more budget conscious for smaller operations like you say. The Eric Stephenson book is very good. I first saw it on an instructor's shelf in the UK.

[Joe Calhoon]

Joe
I don't know that I agree with "lame", but it is "antiquated". it's definitely not a video for use in a production environment.
It was the concept of using a tail stop, or back stop, to control the angle that the material would meet the cutter head at, that I was referring to. Each situation would be different.
I don't know that I would have used my hands, as was done in that video. The times I've done it, I've made a small jig to control the material and keep my hands away.
Do you have a shaper video on you tube? I've watched the series Brent put up on you tube, and for some reason I thought I had heard you too had a video.

Hi Mike,
in the video he shows dropping in from the front. You will get away with this on small cuts but gets very dangerous on larger cuts even with a back stop. You should have a wide stop at the back and ease the back in. As my photos show.
Yes, I think for the most part his methods are not so good.

I have a Utube channel
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCZ2uL...cpQwrCQ/videos
Its also pretty lame.... working on getting the quality and editing up on these. I have done some for Rangate that are better.

I have a bunch of the BGHM books that are in German but have good pictures.
I found a online link for one of these that shows safety techniques for all machines.

https://www.bghm.de/fileadmin/user_u...b_BG_96.18.pdf

[Jack Hovanec]

For those with a variable speed feed, they can drop cut into a work piece, start the feed and then slow it down until it stops wherever you want it to.
I may look into the shop fox version.

[brent stanley]

Thanks Joe, I knew you'd show up with pictures of what I was talking about. He has fancy kit for it that makes it easier and more repeatable etc, but you can do it with shop scraps. I think dropping in like he does in the double hung sash picture is very very controllable. Left hand on the top left corner, right hand easing it in and it feels very confidence inspiring. I just did this on some replacement wooden storms the other day. You don't ever want to try this without stop blocks at least...

[Edward Dyas]

For that application I prefer to use a molding cutter on a table saw however as long as you slowly set the board on the cutter on a shaper you shouldn't have any problems. Try it with a piece of scrap wood and I think you laugh at being apprehensive with it. The worst that can happen is if you sit it down too fast it might kick back. Just keep your hands down wind just in case. As far as a jig all you would need is a straight fence. Just mark a start and stop place on the fence so you can make both flutes the same.