Building closet organization shelves/drawers etc

[Hoang N Nguyen]

Here's a closet project I did at our previous house.

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....del&highlight=

I modeled these after some closet shelves sold by Ballard design. Ballard was charging close to and some up to $1000 a piece. I built 12 units for the price of 2.

I went with melamine sheets instead of plywood so I didn't have to paint anything. My wife wanted white closet shelves and the melamine came pre-finished in white, I just had to iron on the edge banding which was a lot easier and faster than painting.

[joe webb]

A good top of the line Kreig jig (with the clamp) will only run you a couple hundred dollars, and if you are making more than 4 drawers, it will pay off. I often farm out the drawers to a drawer shop when I am using Blum slides.

I put the shims on the floor to level the base. The shims are concealed by baseboard.

My mistake on grading of plywood. A, B, AB etc are specific grades of plywood for various species. Cabinet grade plywood is a separate grade. In my world, cabinet grade means birch plywood which contains a higher number of layers for strength. Often your supplier stocks them pre-finished. Cabinet grade plywood is used for the case work and drawers. The pre-finished plywood for drawers makes a nice touch.

How can I tell what is cabinet grade plywood? For example this product has no mention of grade.

What is specific to Blum slides that makes you prefer to order the drawers?

Thanks

[joe webb]

Here's a closet project I did at our previous house.

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....del&highlight=

I modeled these after some closet shelves sold by Ballard design. Ballard was charging close to and some up to $1000 a piece. I built 12 units for the price of 2.


I went with melamine sheets instead of plywood so I didn't have to paint anything. My wife wanted white closet shelves and the melamine came pre-finished in white, I just had to iron on the edge banding which was a lot easier and faster than painting.

Bummer can't see you pics. They are blocked. But man, it sounds like you have a huge closet. It would cost a fortune to order them.

I entered a design of a 7ft pantry closet on multiple closet online stores, and the quotes are around $1400-2000. Ikea is about $900 but with little flexibility. I am confident the material to built it would not exceed $300-400.

[Mark e Kessler]

I believe that particular prefinished ply at HD is made by Mt Baker and is probably cabinet grade. Cabinet grade is really just a general term most if not all domestic hardwood plywoods would fall into this grade. Domestics are graded for face (A-D) and Back (1-4), a shop grade just has more defects/splits. Import ply is graded something like B,BB, C, CP on face and back no numbers.

Also know that different species may have different grading standards, one allowing more defects than the other, additionally the type of cut can also come into play.

If you are painting really the better option is plain MDF or an veneer face with an MDF core, flatter more stable surface for the paint but weighs a ton and it's nasty to work with, I won't use it anymore.

If you can only buy your ply from a lumber supplier, definitely don't buy the low cost import ply from HD, I bought some for a lumber rack thinking no big deal for that but its super unstable - I could see it warping and twisting as it was being cut and assembling it was pure hell...

How can I tell what is cabinet grade plywood? For example this product has no mention of grade.

What is specific to Blum slides that makes you prefer to order the drawers?

Thanks

[joe webb]

I have some technical questions

1) cleats supporting the shelf
a) if my shelf is 14" deep. How long would I cut the end cleats?
b) if end cleats are 14" or shorter, I can only attach it to one stud. I see (YouTube) people using just brad nails. Is that strong enough?
c) I see people using brad nails to attach the shelf to the cleat, is it strong enough?
2) cabinets
we put cleats in the back of the cabinet to anchor them to the walls. For a 7ft tall cabinet that we will wall hanging
a) how many cleats needed?
b) how they should be spaced?
3) corners
we have 2 shelves meeting in a corner
a) Do we cut them at 45 degree? Or run one shelf the width of the wall, then other the length of the wall until it touches the first shelf?
b) Do we join the shelves w/ dowels or using a strap under the but join?
c) Let say on the left of a shelf is the wall and on the right is a cabinet. Then we have a cleat on the left. How do we attach it to the cabinet? Pocket holes or add a cleat to the cabinet?

Thanks much

[Thomas McCurnin]

"1) cleats supporting the shelf
a) if my shelf is 14" deep. How long would I cut the end cleats?
b) if end cleats are 14" or shorter, I can only attach it to one stud. I see (YouTube) people using just brad nails. Is that strong enough?"

Yes, I would make them the full width of the shelf. You will need additional wood to screw the cleats into. I'd put some 2x4 nailer strips between studs, or let in some 3/4 ply. One stud is probably not enough purchase for the shelf. Others may have a different opinion. I would open up the wall and configure some nailers. If you cannot get to another stud to attach nailers, I have made some multiple crude 2x4 blocks attached to the single stud which are glued and nailed to the side of the stud and projects out, say 8 inches.

"c) I see people using brad nails to attach the shelf to the cleat, is it strong enough?"

Depends of the anticipated load for the shelf. Me, I would countersink some holes into the cleat and use drywall screws into the stud and/or nailers

"2) cabinets
we put cleats in the back of the cabinet to anchor them to the walls. For a 7ft tall cabinet that we will wall hanging
a) how many cleats needed?
b) how they should be spaced?"

Like most of the people suggested, the weight of the cabinet will be placed on the 2x4 ladder frame on top of the floor. Cleats for the walls would only be used to keep the cabinet from falling over. One cleat ought to do it.

"3) corners
we have 2 shelves meeting in a corner
a) Do we cut them at 45 degree? Or run one shelf the width of the wall, then other the length of the wall until it touches the first shelf?
b) Do we join the shelves w/ dowels or using a strap under the but join?
c) Let say on the left of a shelf is the wall and on the right is a cabinet. Then we have a cleat on the left. How do we attach it to the cabinet? Pocket holes or add a cleat to the cabinet?"

I'd probably put them at 90 degrees and dowel them. This is paint grade.

[Jim Dwight]

When I make a tall cabinet of 3/4 plywood it seems like the sides want to bow out too much. So now I make a shelf near the middle solid, not adjustable, and I put a cleat on the bottom of the fixed shelf and screw it to the wall. I totally agree that a cleat at the top will keep the cabinet upright but if you find you need or want a fixed middle shelf the added cleat will take nearly no time or material. It also tends to suck the cabinet tighter to the wall which looks better.

[joe webb]

Yes, I would make them the full width of the shelf. You will need additional wood to screw the cleats into. I'd put some 2x4 nailer strips between studs, or let in some 3/4 ply. One stud is probably not enough purchase for the shelf. Others may have a different opinion. I would open up the wall and configure some nailers. If you cannot get to another stud to attach nailers, I have made some multiple crude 2x4 blocks attached to the single stud which are glued and nailed to the side of the stud and projects out, say 8 inches.

Thanks Tom. I would like to avoid opening the drywalls at all cost. It is such a pain to fix drywalls. I would rather attach a piece of plywood of the same height as the cabinet on the wall. Basically make it look like multiple cabinets side by side, wall to wall. While I don't like that look, it seems much less work than fixing drywalls.

[joe webb]

When I make a tall cabinet of 3/4 plywood it seems like the sides want to bow out too much. So now I make a shelf near the middle solid, not adjustable, and I put a cleat on the bottom of the fixed shelf and screw it to the wall. I totally agree that a cleat at the top will keep the cabinet upright but if you find you need or want a fixed middle shelf the added cleat will take nearly no time or material. It also tends to suck the cabinet tighter to the wall which looks better.

Thanks Jim. To save me from fixing the baseboard, I am gonna hang the cabinet above the base board. Say 10" from the floor. Much simpler. Just need the walls to be plumb. I plan to make cabinets with 2 fixed shelves. Thus we can have 4 cleats (top, bottom, under the 2 fixed shelves).

Do people usually put a cleat/ledger at the bottom from the cabinet to rest on? I think the majority of the weight will be shifted vertical down and applied to that cleat, then the back cleats are just to prevent the cabinet from tipping over.