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Thread: 5,5kW ATC spindle problem, tool release

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
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    5,5kW ATC spindle problem, tool release

    Hi,

    I recently bought a second hand chinese 1325 CNC router and laterly I noticed the tool release for the spindle getting more and more difficult.
    It took several tries to release the tool holder and now it stopped completely. I read some tips here and tapped the holder slightly and upped the cylinder pressure too get it loos but it didn't come out all the way, I had to pry it out.
    Now it doesn't grab the tool anymore, it feels like the cylinder isn't pushing all the way.
    Could this be due to debris or is it more likely something is worn you think? I can't fins any tear downs of this kind of spindle and I'm a bit reluctant to just go in there myself but I will if I have too!
    Any tips would be greatly appreciated!

    This is the type of spindle:

    ebay/191870683367
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Keith Outten; 04-20-2020 at 9:21 AM.

  2. #2
    First thing I would do is make certain everything is clean, no burrs or foreign objects in the changer assembly or spindle, etc.

    David
    David
    CurlyWoodShop on Etsy, David Falkner on YouTube, difalkner on Instagram

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Falkner View Post
    First thing I would do is make certain everything is clean, no burrs or foreign objects in the changer assembly or spindle, etc.

    David
    I cleaned it out with alcohol as far as I could reach but I will bring some q-tips and try to get into the hard to reach space below the moving part of the locking mechanism. I would love to be able to fix it without opening it, there is bound to be many seals and stuff, high power AC and water cooling are not something I love to touch!

  4. #4
    I have often wondered on mine how much wear would be in the parts that grab and release the tool. I am also concerned about moisture in my lines so am hoping to add a dryer some time soon. Have you tried contactacting the original seller of the spindle? I know that I can not find any info on mine online but the seller told me that he could walk me thru the disassembly to change like the bearings. I have seen some posts of people who have taken their wc chinese spindles apart and they documented it pretty well. They weren't ATC spindles but they might have enough info for you to feel comfortable in tearing into it.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobby milam View Post
    I have often wondered on mine how much wear would be in the parts that grab and release the tool. I am also concerned about moisture in my lines so am hoping to add a dryer some time soon. Have you tried contactacting the original seller of the spindle? I know that I can not find any info on mine online but the seller told me that he could walk me thru the disassembly to change like the bearings. I have seen some posts of people who have taken their wc chinese spindles apart and they documented it pretty well. They weren't ATC spindles but they might have enough info for you to feel comfortable in tearing into it.
    It is second hand from Lithuania (I'm in Sweden) and I don't think the company that imported it is around anymore even if I could brave the language difference. The machine is an ultra generic Chinese machine and I have tried finding the company but no luck yet! Worst case I will try to take it apart with the help of a few good mechanical engineer friends!

  6. #6
    Go look at cnczone forums. I think that is where I have seen some documented threads on disassembly

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Araya View Post
    Now it doesn't grab the tool anymore, it feels like the cylinder isn't pushing all the way.
    Could this be due to debris or is it more likely something is worn you think?
    Hi Daniel,
    Your air cylinder/actuator may be stuck or binding due to a combination of water deposits/corrosion (from moisture in the compressed air supply) and lack of lubrication. I would recommend removing the air hoses and squirting some air tool oil into both air fitting ports at the top of your spindle. Let it soak, then reconnect hoses and apply air pressure (attempt to actuate tool holder draw bar). Repeat this process until you are able to free it up. I wouldn't recommend trying to pry it open manually, as you may damage the mechanism if not careful.
    David

  8. #8
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    Daniel, I think there are other solvents that will remove stuff alcohol won't dissolve. Maybe naptha, acetone, lacquer thinner?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by richard newman View Post
    Daniel, I think there are other solvents that will remove stuff alcohol won't dissolve. Maybe naptha, acetone, lacquer thinner?

    I wouldn't recommend dumping any lacquer thinner or other solvent into the air ports at the top of the spindle. Since you're not sure what seals (if any) are present in the air cylinder or associated parts, you don't want to risk damaging them.
    David

  10. #10
    David's response in on the right track. These have an air cylinder that pushes (usually against belleville spring washers) and has either grippers or little ball bearings that grip the knob on the end of the tool holder retention knob. I've had this all apart on my CNC mill, which is a different style, but along the same lines. I would use oil in the air lines to see if anything frees up. Also look up in the spindle hole with a mirror and determine if you have a gripper or balls. The grippers can sometimes break or the balls get damaged.
    Brian Lamb
    Lamb Tool Works, Custom tools for woodworkers
    Equipment: Felder KF700 and AD741, Milltronics CNC Mill, Universal Laser X-600

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Lamb View Post
    David's response in on the right track. These have an air cylinder that pushes (usually against belleville spring washers) and has either grippers or little ball bearings that grip the knob on the end of the tool holder retention knob. I've had this all apart on my CNC mill, which is a different style, but along the same lines. I would use oil in the air lines to see if anything frees up. Also look up in the spindle hole with a mirror and determine if you have a gripper or balls. The grippers can sometimes break or the balls get damaged.
    Thank you for all the advice! I have a ball style gripper and the balls looked ok as far as I could tell but I will do a closer inspection now that I know more about the inner workings of it!
    I will try to get a better look this Friday when I hopefully will have a whole day to tinker with it.
    Last edited by Daniel Araya; 04-15-2020 at 7:36 PM.

  12. #12
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    Hi,
    Spent some time checking the spindle and it looks like the balls are still a bit out when the gripper is down, it looks like the cylinder isn't pushing all the way down.

    The spindle has four air lines:
    "air seal" that is on all the time when the spindle is running
    "tool change" that is the cylinder
    "air return" that is the return from the other side of the piston I guess
    "dust removal" that is a line that I think is to blast the gripper and holders clean when changing.

    I unscrewed the pneumatic fittings and put a q-tip in there, it looks like quite a bit of oil residue from the compressor oil. I think the oily air has been on all the time on both the "air seal" and "dust removal", could oil in the "dust removal" have built up and stopped the movement?
    The "dust removal" goes straight through the spindle, would it be safe to use alcohol or some other solvent to flush it out you think?

    An exploded view sketch would do good just about now!

    It looks more or less like thins sketch I found online:
    Attached Images Attached Images

  13. #13
    I found a drawing of the typical water-cooled Chinese spindle, maybe it will help you figure it out. I would assume you can unbolt the upper portion that contains the air cylinder and se what is going on.

    HTB1DoGEHXXXXXc0aXXXq6xXFXXXI.jpg
    Brian Lamb
    Lamb Tool Works, Custom tools for woodworkers
    Equipment: Felder KF700 and AD741, Milltronics CNC Mill, Universal Laser X-600

  14. #14
    It would be a crap shoot without any information from the manufacturer but if the spindle is gunked with nasty oil from being run on dirty air you may have luck rinsing the air passageways with something like Seafoam as its across the board safe for most any seal known (modern vehicles run some of the most fragile seal materials).

  15. #15
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    If you can find Kroil that's I would flush out the old oil with and the mechanism also. Air tool oil is very much like Kroil and its also a great solvent for cleaning that will not harm or dissolve things. Prying might have left burrs or other damage. Compressor oil is blow by from the compressor and not good for air cylinders.
    Last edited by Bill George; 04-17-2020 at 7:11 PM.
    Retired Guy- Central Iowa.HVAC/R , Cloudray Galvo Fiber , -Windows 10

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