Home Safe Recommendations

[Mark Patoka]

My wife and I are looking at purchasing a safe for our home, most likely something in the 20-25 cubic foot range. I'm not a gun owner but we were looking at gun safes at our local Gander Mountain (specifically the Timber Ridge line by Liberty Safe). Are gun safes a good option for safekeeping papers, photos, electronic media?

Most sales literature point out the fire rating and temp thresholds and how the safe becomes waterproof if there is a fire and the heat-activated door seals. What about water/flood damage caused by broken pipes when there is no fire?

Does anyone have any recommendations or experiences with home safes? I understand you can't eliminate access by a determined thief but our primary need is to protect important papers, irreplaceable photos, electronic media, cash and any valuables. Flooding seems to be the one issue that is least protected against.

We just started looking and haven't spoken with or looked at any dedicated safe or locksmith dealers. It looks like I'll have to spend approx $1K but am looking for any recommendations or experiences.

[Dan Hintz]

You don't need a safe to be flood-safe... purchase a $30 food sealer from Target or Wal-Mart. I guarantee those things will keep whatever you put in the plastic sleeves watertight for months submerged in water (I tested it)... and the lack of air also cuts down on degradation (assuming you use acid-free paper). I'm a stamp collector (philatelist), so I triple check anything that supposedly saves vital paperwork.

[Lori Kleinberg]

To be honest this is my husbands area, but I found the gun safes to be a very economical and versatile storage option.
There is a huge selection out there, so you should be able to find just what you need.

[Ken Garlock]

Greetings Mark.

About 6 years ago I briefly looked into purchasing a home safe, but decided to use the local bank instead.

There are two important ratings to be aware of. How long it will stand up to fire, and how long it takes to crack it. The better the ratings, the better the safe. I found that a safe may have a good fire rating, but a mediocre cracking rating,and vise a versa. Your job is to find one that has the best of both. Also look for the UL approval, given it, the brand is secondary, IMO.

I would also steer clear of the electronic locks. I know how long I can turn a knob, but I don't know how long a battery will last.

If your home sets on a slab, get a safe that has a ground anchor option that bolts the safe to the slab. The bolt is in the bottom center of the safe where it can't be accessed by a crook.

Just my thoughts. I am sure others will have more detail and options.

The best cost more, so be prepared to pay more than you have allocated.

[Steven DeMars]

I would look at a "real" fire safe . . .
A commercial fire safe is the way to go. Locate it near an exterior wall with at little potential "fuel" around it.
A gun safe is worthless now days for burglary protection. A $500.00 120VAC plasma cutter will cut an opening quicker than the Wiley Coyote . . . .
Consider placing a quality fire box inside your fire safe with what is really important. Remember, paper will brown, blacken way before it burns . . .
Also quiz your local fire department as to best placement based on normal construction for your area.
Also, keep any purchase of any type of safe somewhat to yourself. There are a lot of stupid people out there. Safe = $$$$$$$$

Steve

[Mitchell Andrus]

+1 on the plasma cutter. If it was welded together, it can be cut apart.

You wanna fool with their heads. Buy a show safe... a decoy. Let'em burn into that and then leave.

Hide your valuables in a false wall, floor boards, hollowed out dehumidifier in the basement, THEN inside a fire box rated for 2 hours. If they can't find it they can't take it. Lg quantities of paper money, stocks, wills, etc., should be kept at a bank. Even a 2 hr box may allow paper inside to char to dust if the fire's hot enough.

Forget the fake soda can in the fridge, first place I ... er, THEY look.
.

[Joe Chritz]

Any quality safe will generally keep a burglar out. It needs to either be heavy (600+ pounds heavy) or solidly attached to the floor.

Generally in residential break ins the suspects don't want to stay inside for any longer than needed. That keeps them from working on the safe on site. A dedicated safe breaking crew will bring their own tools and you won't stop them.

For fire protection for documents any small fire safe can be put inside the large safe for double protection and would likely be very safe from fire.

Of almost as much importance as a good safe is to have very specific and detailed records of any items of value, especially high probability targets. A photo of the items and a description of it is generally sufficient. Make/model/serial/value for each item. I can't stress that part enough. When a crew is finally arrested there may be hundreds of items recovered and it is often very hard if not impossible to get it all back to the correct owners.

www.crimedoctor.com has some good tips on hardening you home against break ins. Remember crooks choose victims like the big cats in Africa. If you look like trouble they will go somewhere else.

Joe

[Scott T Smith]

Let me start off by stating that I've had a gun safe go through a fire. In my instance, the safe was a Canon brand, and it did a fine job of protecting the items that were inside it.

There was some moisture damage (minor), from water that seeped past the door seal. Also, it took about a week to get it opened after the fire; (electronic lock - had to wait for replacement parts.

My thoughts? First, Canon is a well respected brand, and they were great to deal with in the aftermath of the fire.

Second, it's not waterproof.

Third - spend the extra bucks to get an increased fire rating.

Fourth - good points by others re the plasma cutter. I can personally attest that the armor plating that Canon uses inside their doors is top quality. I have some machinist grade carbide bits and the safe laughed at them! I did not want to use a plasma cutter on it as I did not want the slag to damage my firearms.

Fifth - the manufacturers tend to play games re the fire ratings. It's worthwhile to spend time to see who offers what.

Sixth - most of the fire rating is due to sheetrock panels inside the safe. These would not be that hard to add...

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

20-25 cubic foot range.

Sounds about the size of a small appliance interior.
Cozy?

It is the rare and bizarre home burglar who carries plasma cutters (sufficient to crack a good safe) on his back into a home. I suppose that a determined team could get the truck and load the safe but the exposure and time needed will serve as a serious deterrant.

Home burglars are mostly smash and grab in and out.

[Steven DeMars]

Sounds about the size of a small appliance interior.
Cozy?

It is the rare and bizarre home burglar who carries plasma cutters (sufficient to crack a good safe) on his back into a home. I suppose that a determined team could get the truck and load the safe but the exposure and time needed will serve as a serious deterrant.

Home burglars are mostly smash and grab in and out.

Not necessarily correct in this area. . . They are carrying plasma cutters to steal catalytic converters. . . . cut door locks out of metal buildings, etc . . .

[Sam Layton]

Mark,

Gun safes are very good. Some things to consider: Get a safe with the steel sides and door with steel as thick as you can find. Make sure the door has bolts that go into both sides, top, and bottom of the frame when locked. Get a good fire rating. I am thinking that you may add some weather stripping for increased water security. Make sure you bolt it to the floor.

Buy a good quality safe. You may have to spend a little more that 1K. In addition, install an alarm system in your residence. You will be well protected.

The only thing I have to say about plasma cutters is, don't store your plasma cutter next to your safe. Residential burglars do not carry plasma cutters to a residential burglary. The most tools they carry may be channel lock pliers, and/or a small pry tool. They want in and out. That is what the alarm system is for, to scare they away. Some one will say that they know of a burglar that entered while an alarm was going off... Every now and then they will. However, they will be in and out fast.

I like the idea that Joe had about putting a small fire safe inside your gun safe, great idea. Buy a large gun safe, they fill fast.

Sam

[Steven DeMars]

If you do bolt to the floor, do not use the same lenght bolts for all four positions. Have one where when trying to pry you end up with 4" to 6" of space between the bottom of the safe and the top of the concrete. It makes for a great surprise. Now they have to try finding something in the house to make up the space to continue prying up on the safe. This long bolt has to be the type that totally penetrates the slab and spring spreads once it goes through. Sort of like a very large toggle bolt. Tighten just enough. . . . I hope this makes sense . . .

Steve

[Mitchell Andrus]

Not necessarily correct in this area. . . They are carrying plasma cutters to steal catalytic converters. . . . cut door locks out of metal buildings, etc . . .

18v Sawzalls too. Metal buildings... right through the wall.
.

[Joe Chritz]

Sam hit the nail. Not sure how I forgot to mention that but an audible alarm will save your stuff.

Even if they are bold enough to go in anyway they will limit the time to a few minutes max. Not enough time to work on a safe they can't carry.

Coming from the enforcement side I much prefer monitored silent alarms. If I can catch one inside we likely solve many many cases and stop many more. I know people who have done over 300 breakin's before getting caught.

From a "save my stuff and make them go away" side a monitored audible is the better bet.

I have seen a fair number of safes cracked on site but they were usually businesses and they used tools found on site.

Joe

[John Coloccia]

www.sturdysafe.com

It's what I have and it's probably the best you'll do you security and fire protection until you get into the really serious safes that are way more than you want to spend. Don't let the simple paint jobs and no frills fool you. This is a VERY serious safe considering it's a "consumer" safe, not a rated safe for insurance purposes. It's significantly better than most of the other gun safes out there, IMHO.