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Thread: What screws for building cabinet boxes with melamine ?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Engel View Post
    I believe Confirmat screws are designed specifically for particle board.

    While you certainly can use them in plywood, they aren't necessary I would just use a good wood screw.

    I prefer square drive screws because the bit will hold the screw.

    But I also use quite a lot of GRK screws.
    Ditto on the GRK screws- excellent choice!
    “Pay no attention to what you cannot control..” Epictetus, 100 A.D.
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  2. #17
    Hi,
    Once upon a time, I was taught when screwing two pieces of wood together, to seek out a screw with a shank about the length of the thickness of the first piece you are screwing through.

    However I see that drywall screws are popular here and they have no shank. So what gives? Was I given bad advice?

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edwin Santos View Post
    Hi,
    Once upon a time, I was taught when screwing two pieces of wood together, to seek out a screw with a shank about the length of the thickness of the first piece you are screwing through.

    However I see that drywall screws are popular here and they have no shank. So what gives? Was I given bad advice?
    No you were given good advise. Dry wall screws are discourages for woodworking, despite many folks using them because they are cheap and available.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  4. #19
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    Aw come on Jim,drywall screws are good for..... well drywall. I refuse to use them for anything else as well.

  5. #20
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    Yeah I don't use drywall screws for anything but drywall either. They're the cheapest screw you can buy and it shows in how easy it is to snap them. They're are plenty of better screws out there besides the confirmats. But you can't do better than confirmats in melamine boxes IMO.... which are particle board btw.

    As far as the financial aspects..... if well under $1 difference in screws per box causes you to lose jobs, your in one heck of a tough market! I just bid a project with about $26k worth of melamine boxes. Cost for the screws would be well under $100

    Lastly, though I haven't read them in a while, I'm pretty sure AWI specs would not allow using normal screws for melamine boxes. So if your bidding contracts that call for AWI specs.... may be worth considering

    good luck,
    JeffD

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Duncan View Post
    But you can't do better than confirmats in melamine boxes IMO.... which are particle board btw.
    Note that the OP indicated that the melamine material being used is plywood core rather than particle board. Hence, the deeper screw discussion.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  7. #22
    Am I the only one that thinks "screwing" together carcasses in a production environment is folly ? There are more efficient ways in both time and cost.

    Part of the confirmat advantage is that it's thick cross section act like a dowel, providing strength in shear.

  8. #23
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    Dave, I think there are multiple factors that come into play. Screws and glue with components that are cut true can be pretty darn strong. Several local professionals use that method for custom cabinetry. Now I'm talking one or two man shops, not assembly lines with boring machines for doweling, etc. As always, there are multiple methods that work well.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  9. #24
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    3/4" plywood core melamine. I am also using 1mm edge tape instead of 1/2mm . I am in a market where people want real good not cheap and as such do not mind paying slightly more. The deck screws are working nicely along with Rooclear glue ( made specifically for melamine). Thanks to everyone for the comments and advice. I plan on sticking with Confirmats with particle board core melamine.

  10. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Kees View Post
    3/4" plywood core melamine. I am also using 1mm edge tape instead of 1/2mm . I am in a market where people want real good not cheap and as such do not mind paying slightly more. The deck screws are working nicely along with Rooclear glue ( made specifically for melamine). Thanks to everyone for the comments and advice. I plan on sticking with Confirmats with particle board core melamine.
    There are so many ways to save money besides screws (like miscalculating material & 1 trip to suppier buys a lot of screws LOL)

    If you don't mind me asking, I work with melamine quite a bit & I'm curious why you're gluing. I didn't know there was a glue.

    Also why plywood core? What is the name of it? I know some people don't like PB for sink units.

    I've used Panolam, which no doubt is a better product, but much more expensive. I think its laminate, not melamine.

  11. #26
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    Robert the first set of cabinets I built for my parents about 20 years ago I learned from a German guy who sharpened all my blades. He was a high end cabinet guy and he introduced me to Rooclear. It is amazing stuff,he glued two scraps and then handed it to me a couple days later and told me to take it home and try to break the joint. The melamine failed ,not the joint. The plywood core melamine was something my wholesale supplier suggested. Not sure what brand ,I could find out. It has plys like baltic birch and works nice. Price wise this stuff was double standard melamine ,but for this job worked out to $300ish more. I am not trying to compete with average cabinets,I want to be better. There is a market for good work where I live,so I have set my shop up to be able to do it. Ask me how it turns out in five or six years. For now I have a whole winter of work lined up.

  12. #27
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    Mike, that material sounds like a really nice product for when you want the melamine surface, but also want a sturdier, more durable structure than the typical particle board provides. I also agree with your philosophy of building "better".
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  13. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Duncan View Post
    As far as the financial aspects.....

    Lastly, though I haven't read them in a while, I'm pretty sure AWI specs would not allow using normal screws for melamine boxes. So if your bidding contracts that call for AWI specs.... may be worth considering

    good luck,
    JeffD
    Wasnt referring to the cost of the screws themselves as the only cost. But I agree. Whatever your setup for sets what works best.

    AWI, to my knowledge, doesnt have any restriction of course other than if your using confirmats as the only means of a butt joint connection (why else would you used them). Blind Dado, Dado, Rabbet, etc.. all would use screws, nails, staples, etc.. Im not sure how fussy it would be but I dont even think there is a call out on specific screw types other than with regards to exposed fasteners but I would imagine virtually no one in the AWI world would be using a drywall screw for anything anyway for all the reasons mentioned and more.

    Most everything bid is AWI custom grade (not an AWI certified shop but its whats spec'd) on most everything. Youve gotta have some other means on finished ends anyway so confirmats just dont make sense to me given the overall cost (fasteners, machinery, time, etc).

    As with everything, all comes down to your shop, and your work. The AWI issue specifically is why we dont use them. A commercial job with a ton of boxes with finished ends both sides and they'd never get used.
    Sometimes I just want to look at pretty pictures,... Thats when I go to the Turners Forum

  14. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Engel View Post
    There are so many ways to save money besides screws (like miscalculating material & 1 trip to suppier buys a lot of screws LOL)
    Thankfully, perhaps other than solvent finishes, and some clears, we dont make any trips to the supplier ;-) I agree, miscalculating materials would be a disaster. Our vendor offers veneer core melamine and just like the OP its just twice the price of down and dirty PB core white/black. They only stock the VC in white and black but it is a much nicer product. I think cheap white is like 23 a sheet and the veneer core is around 45. Its lighter, and a better product in my opinion, but tough to justify for most white work for me.

    Seems once were up in the $40/sheet range were well into the Tafisa world and thats a much nicer product than the down and dirty stuff.
    Sometimes I just want to look at pretty pictures,... Thats when I go to the Turners Forum

  15. #30
    There are AWI shops that always use sheet rock screws for the boxes.

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