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Thread: Tenon tooling for shaper...

  1. #31
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    Probably of more interest to the small shop doing door and window work are the manual tenoners from Europe that were made in the 80s. Rare to find these in the States.

    here is a Okoma and a Habercorn. Probably 200mm X 40mm shafts with pneumatic stops for height. Saw blade with turret stop for various tenon depth and and manual stops on the cross fence that work in tandem with the turret stop n the saw. Usually only a couple tools stack on these but made with constant height so no height adjusting needed.

    The door and window business in Germany is so developed and competitive that a lot of shops, even 2 and 3 man are using the Weinig Conturex. About one million$ to plug one of those in!

    6B9D71F2-523C-4D87-B28B-F307D3A5012B.jpg
    187E7E4B-5DA3-49F4-9308-FD44006A8D24.jpg

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
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    Nashville, TN
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    For limited use, a shop built tenoning jig can be sufficient. My recent project required tenons 3 1/2 inches in length on ash rails 38 inches long, 3 1/2 inches wide, and 1 1/4 inches thick. I could not find a commercial jig for a slider, so used the plans from an article named "Adjustable Tenoning Jig" which was published in the "Woodsmith Ultimate Table Saw Handbook" dated Summer 2013. A 315 mm rip blade on my Hammer slider made the cuts with ease. An opening was cut in the floor of the jig to allow full use of the blade height (a 4 inch tall cut is possible with this setup).

  3. #33
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    Jul 2007
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    Inkerman, Ontario, Canada
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    440
    That's a nice tenoner you have there. That for sure is serious coin to get that setup.

    The older machines are similar to the old SAC machine that i had a few years back, it was pretty solid two vertical spindles with four height setups. I think it was 12" and 10" stacks, not sure on that.

    1-SAC T8-2.jpg


    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Calhoon View Post
    hi Mark,
    15HP on the tenon shaft, 50mm shaft X 320mm. In the picture the stack is all the cutters for traditional double hung and casement with sash thickness of 1 3/4 or 2 1/4. Four heads in that picture- slot and tenon for sash and slot and tenon for the casement frame.
    Yes, it climb cuts but not in the traditional sense, only so the pneumatic floating chipbreaker can be used. With the CNC program the spindle can drop and another cut can be made on the backstroke. For example making the doors in the video the coped stack rail was made by cutting off the tenons on the backstroke.

    cut off saw is controlled by CNC to determine tenon length and works together with the automatic cross fence to cut parts to length up to 10 long.

    height of stack controlled by CNC

    To change to a different system, for example the 68 mm tilt turn window and door system in the video you just change the stack and chipbreaker and select that tool system in the program. Takes less than 5 minutes.

    Its very accurate and repeatable but like all things CNC electronics can go wrong...

    For sure faster and and more accurate than a shaper or a but also quite a investment in machine and tooling.

    Attachment 414995

  4. #34
    Joe, nice machine ,but I'm astounded at the slow speed. Really thought it was slow motion camera until I saw a human
    moving at normal speed. The cope knives on tenon machines are best left to one or two operators for efficiency but most
    of us did ok when asked. Only one job had a double end tenoner but it was used a lot for stock and custom work, ran so
    fast most "catchers" had a hard time keeping up.

  5. #35
    That's why I have multiples, different set up on each one.

    Maybe not automated fast, but fast enough and much cheaper.

    The little milbury machines are nice.

    My Danckaert has a tilting table and the entire table raises and lowers independently from the heads.

  6. #36
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    Dec 2008
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    Ouray Colorado
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    Mark,
    the SAC tenoners and profilers were great machines and very solid. I had the mate to that tenoner for a few years. The SAC P3 profiler. It had a 300mm X 50 shaft with a glass bead saw. Most had a jump spindle for pre cutting when storm proofing but mine did not have that. I was sorry to see SAC go down.
    Probably 320 or 350 mm diameter stacks on your tenoner.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hennebury View Post
    That's a nice tenoner you have there. That for sure is serious coin to get that setup.

    The older machines are similar to the old SAC machine that i had a few years back, it was pretty solid two vertical spindles with four height setups. I think it was 12" and 10" stacks, not sure on that.

    1-SAC T8-2.jpg

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Ouray Colorado
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    831
    Mel, the speed can be turned up a lot if you want. Speed going in is just right for 2 5/8” thick white oak. Return could be faster. This is half of an angle machine where one operator is feeding the profile part while tenoning is occurring. Ideally with the tenoner you would have the shaper at a 90 degree angle to where the operator stands so he can feed the shaper at the same time. In both cases the slow speed of the tenoner is desirable.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Fulks View Post
    Joe, nice machine ,but I'm astounded at the slow speed. Really thought it was slow motion camera until I saw a human
    moving at normal speed. The cope knives on tenon machines are best left to one or two operators for efficiency but most
    of us did ok when asked. Only one job had a double end tenoner but it was used a lot for stock and custom work, ran so
    fast most "catchers" had a hard time keeping up.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Inkerman, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    440
    Joe,
    Yes it was pretty sad to see the company close; their machines seem to be pretty solid stuff.

    Are you familiar with the Wadkin Jet?
    Single spindle and cutoff saw.
    Spindle travels not the table.
    It has three tables to set at different levels and cut all three pieces at the same pass, using all of the tooling on the stack.
    https://www.wadkin.com/archive%20pdf...%20Tenoner.pdf

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Calhoon View Post
    Mark,
    the SAC tenoners and profilers were great machines and very solid. I had the mate to that tenoner for a few years. The SAC P3 profiler. It had a 300mm X 50 shaft with a glass bead saw. Most had a jump spindle for pre cutting when storm proofing but mine did not have that. I was sorry to see SAC go down.
    Probably 320 or 350 mm diameter stacks on your tenoner.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Mark Hennebury; 08-24-2019 at 11:58 PM.

  9. #39
    Joe, thanks for describing that, have not seen much new stuff.

  10. #40
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    Ouray Colorado
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    Mark,
    I am familiar with the Jet but never seen one in person. I have seen the Wadkin Par in use. The Par looks like a ideal 4 sider for the small shop. Those 2 machines were pretty innovative from Wadkin. I know a machinery dealer in the U.K. that was a long time Wadkin employee and was involved in the development of those machines.

    Darcy, like to see some pictures of the Dankart tenoner. It sounds interesting. You are always coming up with rare vintage.

  11. #41

  12. #42
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    Jul 2007
    Location
    Inkerman, Ontario, Canada
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    Hi Joe,
    Wadkin came up with some pretty innovative stuff during that period; I like the PAR and would like to have one.
    I have a couple of JET machines that i am going to rebuild. They are not as heavy duty as the SAC, but look like a nice machine. I have a specific product in mind for the Jet, and thought that it would be perfect for that job.
    This is one in my shop; i have it completely stripped down at the moment.

    1-SAM_5674.JPG



    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Calhoon View Post
    Mark,
    I am familiar with the Jet but never seen one in person. I have seen the Wadkin Par in use. The Par looks like a ideal 4 sider for the small shop. Those 2 machines were pretty innovative from Wadkin. I know a machinery dealer in the U.K. that was a long time Wadkin employee and was involved in the development of those machines.

    Darcy, like to see some pictures of the Dankart tenoner. It sounds interesting. You are always coming up with rare vintage.

  13. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by peter gagliardi View Post
    I forgot to mention, a couple sets of dado blades with the correct spacer in between can and does work pretty well also.
    I was going to add this ,Peter beat me to it.
    Another option is to have two matched STG 10" full kerf sawblades bored to 1-1/14", finish the cuts on the slider, if you only need to do a few doors. Just always remember to tell the sharpening shop to keep the diameters of the blades the same.DAMHIKT

  14. #44
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    Dec 2008
    Location
    Ouray Colorado
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    Mark,
    looks interesting, I saw your video on a SET tenoner. Looks like it has purpose made tooling? While the JET is a normal tenon stack? The different tool sets would have to be made to specific heights so as not to have to move the tables up and down with each change of tooling? This is easy to accomplish with tools on a sleeve.
    Just supposing here..
    Will be looking forward to your rebuild on these.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hennebury View Post
    Hi Joe,
    Wadkin came up with some pretty innovative stuff during that period; I like the PAR and would like to have one.
    I have a couple of JET machines that i am going to rebuild. They are not as heavy duty as the SAC, but look like a nice machine. I have a specific product in mind for the Jet, and thought that it would be perfect for that job.
    This is one in my shop; i have it completely stripped down at the moment.

  15. #45
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Ouray Colorado
    Posts
    831
    I can see where that one would be good for chair makers with the possibilities of compound angles. Like to see a picture of the cross fence and stops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darcy Warner View Post

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