Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 35

Thread: Tearout creating a dado using a Stanley 45

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Clarks Summit PA
    Posts
    534
    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Mickley View Post
    Mark, it appears that I was wrong about the nickers on the Gordon plane, that it is one iron with two knives.

    I received an email from Steve Voigt today on another matter. He wrote it this morning but I only read it this evening. He mentioned that he will be at the Hearne Lumber open house (Oct 4,5) and will be showing his dado plane among others. It does not seem to be on his website, but it might be similar to one in the Seaton chest. He lives near Allentown.
    That would be good if Steve was making a dado plane. That open house at Hearne looks interesting - I have not been to Hearne in many years. Have you been to the open house? If yes, was it worthwhile? I talked to Terry Gordon about the whisker difference between nicker & blade and he said, if I wanted, I could grind a couple thousands off the edge of the blade.

  2. #17
    I go to the Hearne open house every year. It started as a Lie Nielsen event and thankfully Hearne kept it up when LN dropped out after a few years. LN is coming this year for the first time since 2015 or so. I usually go on Friday, when it is a little less crowded and the vendors are fresher. Blackburn Tools, SAPFM and Red Rose are regulars; others have included Bickford, Caleb James, Voigt, Leamy, maybe Raney, Chuck Bender, more.

    About the dado set up. The nicker is straight on the outside, tapered on the inside surface. So the nicker crushes the wood a little bit on the inside and so making the width that has to be peeled off a little less. However even if the cutter does not extend all the way to the nicker cavity, the grain favors a cut to extend all the way.

    One difficulty with a skewed blade is getting it sharpened at just the right angle. In practice we can lean the blade a very little bit to compensate for our sharpening. In this case an extra 1/64 of an inch clearance is very helpful.

    The idea that one is going to set everything up perfectly works in the mind, not in the flesh.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    twomiles from the "peak of Ohio
    Posts
    7,816
    Amazing amount of info...without a shred being said in regards to the plane the OP is using....and, I doubt if I am the only one actually USING the Stanley 45.

    Next? Someone will be on this thread, telling the OP to buy a brand (insert brand name here)new plane...as the "only" way to cure his "problem" with the original plane.

    Asks for advice on one type of plane....and gets nothing but sale pitches?

    Simplest fix? make sure the cutter is not set too deep, so the spurs have a chance to do the job they were designed to do. Simple as that.

    Skilled with the plane? Nah, just had to learn HOW to use it, is all. Takes a bit of practice, and reading the manual for it....

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    DuBois, PA
    Posts
    1,683
    Quote Originally Posted by steven c newman View Post
    Amazing amount of info...without a shred being said in regards to the plane the OP is using....and, I doubt if I am the only one actually USING the Stanley 45.

    Next? Someone will be on this thread, telling the OP to buy a brand (insert brand name here)new plane...as the "only" way to cure his "problem" with the original plane.

    Asks for advice on one type of plane....and gets nothing but sale pitches?

    Simplest fix? make sure the cutter is not set too deep, so the spurs have a chance to do the job they were designed to do. Simple as that.

    Skilled with the plane? Nah, just had to learn HOW to use it, is all. Takes a bit of practice, and reading the manual for it....
    Be careful Bandit! I got two 45's and the Craftsman (made by Sargent) equivalent. I let them set up for specific jobs. Am I skilled with them? I'm a ham-fisted amateur furniture builder, that was a carpenter (left the trade in 1989), served a four year apprenticeship in the mid-70s.
    If the thunder don't get you, the lightning will.

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by steven c newman View Post
    Amazing amount of info...without a shred being said in regards to the plane the OP is using....and, I doubt if I am the only one actually USING the Stanley 45.

    Next? Someone will be on this thread, telling the OP to buy a brand (insert brand name here)new plane...as the "only" way to cure his "problem" with the original plane.

    Asks for advice on one type of plane....and gets nothing but sale pitches?

    Simplest fix? make sure the cutter is not set too deep, so the spurs have a chance to do the job they were designed to do. Simple as that.

    Skilled with the plane? Nah, just had to learn HOW to use it, is all. Takes a bit of practice, and reading the manual for it....
    It sounds like you have bigger problems than the OP. I have used the 45 plane for almost 40 years. I responded to the original query within minutes of his posting. That was four days ago. Did you even read it?

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    twomiles from the "peak of Ohio
    Posts
    7,816
    So...did this photo "show & tell" help out?

    IMG_1760 (640x480).jpg
    IMAG0001.jpg
    Or, time to pack it up..
    IMAG0005.jpg
    And close the lid.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    New England area
    Posts
    208
    Quote Originally Posted by steven c newman View Post
    Amazing amount of info...without a shred being said in regards to the plane the OP is using....and, I doubt if I am the only one actually USING the Stanley 45.

    Next? Someone will be on this thread, telling the OP to buy a brand (insert brand name here)new plane...as the "only" way to cure his "problem" with the original plane.

    Asks for advice on one type of plane....and gets nothing but sale pitches?

    Simplest fix? make sure the cutter is not set too deep, so the spurs have a chance to do the job they were designed to do. Simple as that.

    Skilled with the plane? Nah, just had to learn HOW to use it, is all. Takes a bit of practice, and reading the manual for it....
    We almost always knife lines that will show -- tenon shoulders, dovetail baselines, etc. When working a dado with a plane it pays to knife the shoulders and perhaps even chisel a little groove in the waste, this way the plane doesn't have to be set to take a gossamer shaving in order to not 'get ahead' of the little cloverleaf nickers - a horrible design by the way. The time lost in knifing and chiseling is easily made up by taking a bit of a greedier shaving. BTW, the exit edge shouldn't be an issue as the project component is not be ripped to width until after all the dadoes have been worked.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Clarks Summit PA
    Posts
    534
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Guest View Post
    We almost always knife lines that will show -- tenon shoulders, dovetail baselines, etc. When working a dado with a plane it pays to knife the shoulders and perhaps even chisel a little groove in the waste, this way the plane doesn't have to be set to take a gossamer shaving in order to not 'get ahead' of the little cloverleaf nickers - a horrible design by the way. The time lost in knifing and chiseling is easily made up by taking a bit of a greedier shaving. BTW, the exit edge shouldn't be an issue as the project component is not be ripped to width until after all the dadoes have been worked.
    Good tip Charles on not ripping to width until dados are done. Similar to what Warren recommends not ripping to width until ends are square - you don't worry about tear out on the far edge. And I think your comments about the importance of a good nicker is important. In my opinion a good dado plane should cut the shoulder without tearout, not needing knifing or sawing. The nickers on my HNT Gordon blades are tool steel, and they cut without tearout. In fact, I was cutting a long tenon for a breadboard end, and I used the 3/4 dado plane to cut the tenon. This was a cross grain cut and the nickers worked beautifully. I think this is frequently difficult to pull off and in general is safer to knife the crosscut. I suppose the same situation apply to skew rabbet planes with nickers. Do many experienced woodworkers just avoid the skew rabbet with nicker?

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    twomiles from the "peak of Ohio
    Posts
    7,816
    Rebates across the grain...I use the Stanley/Wards No. 78......

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Clarks Summit PA
    Posts
    534
    Quote Originally Posted by steven c newman View Post
    Rebates across the grain...I use the Stanley/Wards No. 78......
    Do you use the nicker, do you trust it will cross cut grain without tear out? Or do you knife the line?

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    twomiles from the "peak of Ohio
    Posts
    7,816
    I use the nicker, if it is set in the right way ( have seen a few with it backwards), and well sharpened...works just fine, for me.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    New England area
    Posts
    208
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rainey View Post
    Good tip Charles on not ripping to width until dados are done. Similar to what Warren recommends not ripping to width until ends are square - you don't worry about tear out on the far edge. And I think your comments about the importance of a good nicker is important. In my opinion a good dado plane should cut the shoulder without tearout, not needing knifing or sawing. The nickers on my HNT Gordon blades are tool steel, and they cut without tearout. In fact, I was cutting a long tenon for a breadboard end, and I used the 3/4 dado plane to cut the tenon. This was a cross grain cut and the nickers worked beautifully. I think this is frequently difficult to pull off and in general is safer to knife the crosscut. I suppose the same situation apply to skew rabbet planes with nickers. Do many experienced woodworkers just avoid the skew rabbet with nicker?
    Mark, I've never used the Gordon plane you mentioned but a Record 050 does have knives rather than the cloverleaf nickers. These can be trusted on mildly grained wood, though given that the housings have to be marked anyway, I'd still use a knife. The hardly rebuttable presumption is that arrises that will show are incised with a knife, especially those that run across grain, often even when power tools are used. Long-grained arrises of course come up off the plane and don't have to be incised but simply marked with a fine scratch to show the limits of planing.

    All it takes is one swirly little patch of grain to lift and splinter to potentially ruin an entire carcase side, or at best necessitate a costly in time repair job that could have been avoided if the patch had been knifed through.

    Chaulk it up to things going well until they don't-- nothing haughtier than somebody with a few relatively successful projects under their belt (doesn't apply to you!). Comeuppance is surely right around the corner. That, or let me be the fly on the wall in the shop of a guy running housings with hand tools, with only pencil marks, on rare highly figured mahogany that cost $200+ per carcase side. I bet the knife comes out then! If not...

    Pencil or knife across grain? Easy choice for me.
    Last edited by Charles Guest; 08-23-2019 at 7:21 AM.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Clarks Summit PA
    Posts
    534
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Guest View Post
    Mark, I've never used the Gordon plane you mentioned but a Record 050 does have knives rather than the cloverleaf nickers. These can be trusted on mildly grained wood, though given that the housings have to be marked anyway, I'd still use a knife. The hardly rebuttable presumption is that arrises that will show are incised with a knife, especially those that run across grain, often even when power tools are used. Long-grained arrises of course come up off the plane and don't have to be incised but simply marked with a fine scratch to show the limits of planing.

    All it takes is one swirly little patch of grain to lift and splinter to potentially ruin an entire carcase side, or at best necessitate a costly in time repair job that could have been avoided if the patch had been knifed through.

    Chaulk it up to things going well until they don't-- nothing haughtier than somebody with a few relatively successful projects under their belt (doesn't apply to you!). Comeuppance is surely right around the corner. That, or let me be the fly on the wall in the shop of a guy running housings with hand tools, with only pencil marks, on rare highly figured mahogany that cost $200+ per carcase side. I bet the knife comes out then! If not...

    Pencil or knife across grain? Easy choice for me.
    Good wisdom Charles, thank you

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    twomiles from the "peak of Ohio
    Posts
    7,816
    Wonder IF Charles also calls it a "Knife wall"?
    four edged.jpgWards 78.jpg
    Rebates in curly maple. These were raised panels for a Chest of Drawers' side panels, used in a Frame & Panel....raised the other side with a "Sellers" No. 4...
    computer desk project, rebate #2.JPG
    Rebate to house a plywood back panel....wood is Ash....Frame & Panel sides for the new Computer desk I just finished up...
    edges.jpg
    Outside face, Curly Maple Raised panel....being fitted to a rail..
    raised panel.jpg
    stashed panels.jpg
    waiting on glue and clamps...still had 4 more panels to do...
    side view.jpg
    Other side, once things were done...

    Started building Furniture when I was a Junior in High School....69-70 school year....was selling furniture through out the 70s and 80s...got to be too much of a job...now I merely build for me, and my friends and family....might have picked up a few 'talents" along the way....

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    New England area
    Posts
    208
    Steven, I haven't gotten round to subscribing so I can't see your photos, or for some other reason cannot. If they are of rebates of course those are long grain joints and don't present the problems of cross grain housings we've been discussing.

    I finished my training at Barnsley in 1964 and worked for thirty two years, exclusively in the trade, before a very restful and enjoyable retirement.

    Cheers,

    Charles

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •