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Thread: Neanderthal philosophy

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Dawson View Post
    The answer is simple. You need to seize the means of production.
    Yes Doug! 🙂

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edwin Santos View Post
    The future is never as romantic (or familiar) as the past.
    I see no less craftsmanship in a CNC than a chisel. It's just a different kind of tool. Frank Klausz would always say if his grandfather had access to a router, he would have used it.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qBM80C78Nw
    Last edited by Stewie Simpson; 08-12-2019 at 9:29 PM.

  3. #18
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    One piece "raised panels" from solid wood?

    This production method is to woodworking what autotune is to popular music - an abominable ersatz approximation.

    Foo King Hideous

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie Simpson View Post
    I think that, if you wish hand carving details, you could always CNC and add your hand tool 'touches' to finish. Best of both worlds.

  5. #20
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    And for those of you that think Joel's Gramercy backsaw handles are hand shaped;

    https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/blog/586
    Last edited by Stewie Simpson; 08-12-2019 at 11:10 PM.

  6. #21
    Frank Klausz and his grandfather would be put out of work by a CNC. Robotic technology is for replacing the human not the tools the human uses. Sure a CNC still requires programming but it is just the first step towards removing the human from the equation.

  7. #22
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    About like George Jetson at work? Pushing a button to get Uniblab to do the spocket making...

  8. #23
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    I like the quietness of neander tools. Since the use of motorized tools and the sound of jet engines has cost 60% hearing loss, I have enjoyed the quiet of hand tools,except for the tapping of chisels and gouges. Sawing with a hand saw is learning to use your skill. The thing with, say, table saws is setting it up, then watching out for your fingers and thumbs. It's more safety than skill, so to speak. People in the neighborhood are asking me if I still do woodworking. I tell them yes, but have gone back to the older traditional woodworking style.
    You never get the answer if you don't ask the question.

    Joe

  9. #24
    I can certainly understand the enjoyment some people might get from using a CNC machine. When I was starting out in engineering, I used to go to the office on the weekend so I could use the mainframe computer by myself. It was like playing a game - the computer was an unbiased, unemotional judge that simply told me whether I had done my program correctly. If I had errors, I could immediately correct them and run the program again.

    I used to tell people "They pay me for doing something I'd do for free."

    I can imagine that CNC can be like that when someone if trying to create a new design. Instead of using various hand tools, the designer is using a programming language and running the program is the way you see whether your program did what you intended for it to do. If not, you get to try again.

    For me, it was the creative process that was interesting. Once it was working, I lost interest.

    Mike
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  10. #25
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    Wait til 3D printing takes over. Just a matter of time IMO. Also, not sure todays IKEA generation really cares for good old fashioned wood as much anymore - in many wsys its too limited for their style preferences.

  11. #26
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    Interesting quote Mark. Which of his works is it from? I tried finding it in In The Mirror of The Past without success. I would like to read it in context. Thx.
    Stand for something, or you'll fall for anything.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Carey View Post
    Interesting quote Mark. Which of his works is it from? I tried finding it in In The Mirror of The Past without success. I would like to read it in context. Thx.
    Bill, it is from "The Right to Useful Unemployment" 1978. Ivan Illich. I read it over 20 years ago, and looked at it again recently. I think he would admire woodworkers, especially neanderthals who value the process as much as the product. PM me if you ever want to philosophize about Illich.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rainey View Post
    Yes Doug! 
    I thought he was jerking your chain...maybe because I assume most people believe in (to paraphrase Richard A. Epstein) keeping their hands off other people and off their stuff.
    What this world needs is a good retreat.
    --Captain Beefheart

  14. #29
    [QUOTE=John Stevens;2944909]I thought he was jerking your chain.../QUOTE]

    No. It is quite literally true.

  15. #30
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    I think it's about the end goal. If tools are means to an end then it does not matter whether you use hand tools or machines - pick what gets the job done in constraints of time and ability.

    If it's about the process then both have their charm and satisfaction. I love the curls hand plane makes. The sound of shaving gives some sort of satisfaction that machines for same use don't match.

    On the other hand I just love impact driver. I always end up with a smile after driving a 3" screw in seconds. Well it's loud but has some sort of authority.

    Now some tools are just tools. They get job done but don't have any sort of satisfaction. Router screams as if it's on fire and just does not want to be bothered. Similar to it whenever I have used hand files to do any adjustments, it keeps telling me that use me and I will show you what's ugly.

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