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Thread: Single Phase Conversion for Edgebander...

  1. #1

    Single Phase Conversion for Edgebander...

    Hi, I am relatively new to the forum, and i hope I am posting this in the correct place.

    I have stumbled upon a fairly good deal on a Virutex eb140 PLC edgebander: (http://www.<span style="font-family:...el.aspx</span>)

    I have seen it run, and am sufficiently impressed with the results. It looks like something that would fit nicely into my expanded shop plans.

    Unfortunately, it is a 3 phase 220v, and my shop is only equipped with single phase 220v. I am relatively new to this game, and have never been a wizard with electrical wiring.

    Is a rotary phase converter the only option to make this work in my shop? Or is there another option I am missing? I am guessing a VFD or static converter would not work (because of the loss of control and loss of power respectively).

    I currently have no other use for a RPC, and if I add the purchase of one to the cost of this edgebander, it is no longer a deal worth pursuing, or at least warrants a pause for thought.

    Please forgive me if I have posted this in the wrong section. i am new here, and the deal is time sensitive. i would greatly appreciate any help anyone could offer.

    Thanks,

    Will

  2. #2
    You could build your own RPC. Web site "Practical Machinest" has dozens of shop made RPC's. Built one for my neighbor about 15 years ago.

  3. #3
    Darn, that's what I thought. I am not nearly handy enough with electrical for a solution like that, but it looks like it's the only way. I might have to just let this one go...

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    West Lafayette, IN
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    5,163
    Iíve seen a number of used RPCís (Phase-o-matic and such) come up for sale used at auction. So if you donít need to put the edgebander in use immediately and can wait to find a used one, that might be an option.

    Or, maybe recruit someone more electrically skilled to make you one. Might be someone on here or PM whoíd make one for a small profit.

  5. #5
    A vid can convert single phase electric into three phase electric. However, you have to defeat the on/off switch and control it from the vid. Jack Forsberg sells and helps you to configure vid's for this purpose, and they are relatively affordable,

    Mike

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Peoria, IL
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    1,208
    Start out by making sure everything in the edgebander is 3 phase. The heater may not be. Not 100% certain, but I don't think you can run a resistance heater on 3 phase.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona
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    285
    Hi Bill,
    I have been running a 4 HP 3 phase belt sander/grinder from 220V single phase for over 2 years with no problems using this VFD shown below.
    Here is a previous SMC thread discussing VFD use for other woodworking equipment.
    David

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/UPDATED-220V-4KW-5HP-VARIABLE-FREQUENCY-DRIVE-INVERTER-VFD-NEW/111490143307?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid =p2057872.m2749.l2649


    https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?209031-Educate-me-on-3-phase-power-converters

    5 HP VFD.jpg



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Modesto, CA, USA
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    How many horsepower? Up to 3hp a vfd is the way to go. Full power to the motor and variable speed. You do not need reverse or dynamic braking for a belt sander.
    Above 3hp a rotary starts to seem like a good idea.
    Bill D.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona
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    285
    I do not believe that the use of a VFD is restricted to 3 HP and under. This one is rated for 10 HP. You can read the full description at the link below.
    David

    "This VFD can be used for constant torque loads ( such as hard starting: Air compressors, HVAC units) and variable torque loads (such as pumps, fans, etc). It can be used as a motor speed control and a phase converter. The input for this VFD is 1 phase . You can control the different speed as you like when yo use this VFD. Many customer bought this VFD from us to use for: Lathes, Mills, Car Hoists, Pumps & Conveyors, etc and then performance excellently."

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/7-5KW-10HP-....c100005.m1851

    10 HP VFD.jpg

  10. #10
    So a VFD would work for this?

    In my limited understanding of electrical, I thought VFDs would only work for motors, wired directly with the switch removed. The one bit of information I have been able to find was on another online forum, where a fellow who seems to be a lot more knowledgeable than I wrote: "
    machines that have pneumatic components or multiple motors wonít work with a VFD at all, so that means no edgebandersor wide belt sanders". Sounded good to me, so I believed it.

    With the cost of a VFD added, this is still a good deal. if I have to add the cost of a RPC on the other hand...

    By the way, thanks everyone for the quick replies!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona
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    285
    Hi Bill,
    The key question is: what is the HP rating of your motor, and what other parts of the machine (if any) need to run on single phase 120Vac?
    But I would suspect that if they were running on 3 phase originally, they won't know the difference (120V accessories) between the actual 3 phase and the manufactured 3 phase from the VFD.
    David

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona
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    285
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Dufour View Post
    . You do not need reverse or dynamic braking for a belt sander.

    Bill D.
    OK Bill, you are correct. But what does that have to do with the problem at hand? We need more information about this particular machine in order to make an informed decision and/or recommendation.
    David

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    West Lafayette, IN
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    5,163
    Guys, this isnít a normal woodworking machine like a sander or saw. Itís got a lot of additional electronics that control the edgebander, speed, temperature, etc. I donít think these could operate properly with a VFD, hence the reason for an RPC.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Toronto Ontario
    Posts
    9,445
    Hi, only the motors will be three phase.

    The heaters, solenoid valves, Infra-Red lamp etc will all be single phase.

    It's possible to do the conversion with a VFD however it may be a bit complicated and the machine will need recertification to maintain it's electrical approval.

    Regards, Rod.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Modesto, CA, USA
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    2,807
    Quote Originally Posted by David Buchhauser View Post
    OK Bill, you are correct. But what does that have to do with the problem at hand? We need more information about this particular machine in order to make an informed decision and/or recommendation.
    David
    I meant that a VFD for every machine will cost more in the end then one big rotary converter. But a vfd can offer features that a RPC can never offer. Such as soft start, dynamic braking, variable speed, instant reverse and they can be code approved for service disconnect saving the cost of big switches for each machine.
    He does not sound comfortable around high voltage where he will have to separate the single phase stuff and supply it with line power and only use the VFd for motor power.
    They do make big VFD's but above 3-5 Horsepower the cost skyrockets from 150 to the sky is the limit. The Tesla car has about a 700 HP VFD. but it costs thousands. Farmers use thousands of horsepower ones to fine tune pump outputs to match well flow and irrigation needs.
    Bill D.

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