plane sole grinding

[Alan Schwabacher]

One reason people are asking to see the problem is related to the comments that Japanese plane soles are not flat: certain parts of the sole should be in line, while other parts matter less or not at all. The toe, the heel, and the part of the sole just in front of the blade should be in a plane. Since your 12" rule is not long enough to span the important parts, it is possible that your plane is set up perfectly now, and that grinding out the hump may make you need to grind a lot more to get the plane to work well again.

[Jim Koepke]

I have tried to post pics but I can't. I don't know why but SMC for whatever reason doesn't recognize my pic files.

There is a limit to how big of a file can be posted on SMC. If you have an image handling application you may be able to convert it to a jpeg of a smaller file size.

jtk

[Clavius Walker]

Yes, I am starting to grind again on a very very limited basis. Maybe this winter.

But After working with metal as a Tool and Die Maker for 50 plus years I can honestly say that 99% of the current population do not have the hand skills or the resources to lap in a hand plane. In all truthfulness all you are doing is scratching the bottom. Old iron is harder than the newer stuff. You have a 100% better chance of lapping a 1/2 inch chisel flat than a plane. I have had people send me planes after they spent a lot of time on them and I can tell it they are right or left handed and measure the amount of damage they did. Yes I know everyone knows how to do it and that it doesn't take long but a few hundred years ago every one Also knew the world was flat and if you sailed to far you would fall off.

If a person puts some fine sand paper on their electric sander and sands the bottom, they will get a shiny bottom that will slide easier than t dirty bottom. Some past wax like Johnson's floor wax or tree wax it will slide even easier. To be honest the best money spent as far as planning goes is sharpening supplies. Actually all shop tools benefit for being sharp. Wooden hand plane have been used for thousands of years and I doubt they were flat.

The real truth is:
A sharp plane works
If iron sanded well they wouldn't have needed to design and build milling machines and surface grinders.
Save yourself time, aggravation, and money and don't bother trying lapping the bottom.
Shine the bottom, wax it, and get on with your life. 1 or two sheets of 180-220 paper on a random orbit sander should do the trick and don't try to reuse the paper on wood.
There are some good new plane manufacturers out there and quality is long remembered after a cheap price is forgotten.

If man was supposed to fly then God would have given him wings rates right up there with I bought a plane at a garage sale and it must be flattened before I can use it.

Rhetorical question if it was so easy to flatten a plane by hand then why didn't the factory do it in the first place?

Tom, I don't know if you'll see this or not and I can't seem to figure out how to work the PM function on this site.
I've got a question for you about flattening a plane, I'd like to send it to you for your services but wanted to get your opinion on doing it first, it's an old type 1 Millers Falls 15 (Stanley 5 1/2 equiv) that I would really like to use for one specific purpose in box making. Anyhow, if you could respond to this or maybe PM me, I would be most appreciative.

Thanks

[Jim Koepke]

Tom, I don't know if you'll see this or not and I can't seem to figure out how to work the PM function on this site.
I've got a question for you about flattening a plane, I'd like to send it to you for your services but wanted to get your opinion on doing it first, it's an old type 1 Millers Falls 15 (Stanley 5 1/2 equiv) that I would really like to use for one specific purpose in box making. Anyhow, if you could respond to this or maybe PM me, I would be most appreciative.

Thanks

Howdy Clavius, to use the PM function on this site one has to be a contributor, currently a mere cost of $6 a year.

You mention a Millers Falls #15. Is it currently incapable of performing "one specific purpose in box making"?

Can you expand some on that particular purpose?

jtk

[Marinus Loewensteijn]

Yes, I am starting to grind again on a very very limited basis. Maybe this winter.

But After working with metal as a Tool and Die Maker for 50 plus years I can honestly say that 99% of the current population do not have the hand skills or the resources to lap in a hand plane. In all truthfulness all you are doing is scratching the bottom. Old iron is harder than the newer stuff. You have a 100% better chance of lapping a 1/2 inch chisel flat than a plane. I have had people send me planes after they spent a lot of time on them and I can tell it they are right or left handed and measure the amount of damage they did. Yes I know everyone knows how to do it and that it doesn't take long but a few hundred years ago every one Also knew the world was flat and if you sailed to far you would fall off.

If a person puts some fine sand paper on their electric sander and sands the bottom, they will get a shiny bottom that will slide easier than t dirty bottom. Some past wax like Johnson's floor wax or tree wax it will slide even easier. To be honest the best money spent as far as planning goes is sharpening supplies. Actually all shop tools benefit for being sharp. Wooden hand plane have been used for thousands of years and I doubt they were flat.

The real truth is:
A sharp plane works
If iron sanded well they wouldn't have needed to design and build milling machines and surface grinders.
Save yourself time, aggravation, and money and don't bother trying lapping the bottom.
Shine the bottom, wax it, and get on with your life. 1 or two sheets of 180-220 paper on a random orbit sander should do the trick and don't try to reuse the paper on wood.
There are some good new plane manufacturers out there and quality is long remembered after a cheap price is forgotten.

If man was supposed to fly then God would have given him wings rates right up there with I bought a plane at a garage sale and it must be flattened before I can use it.

Rhetorical question if it was so easy to flatten a plane by hand then why didn't the factory do it in the first place?

I've ground optics in the past and know how to test. I've also attempted to use several of the popular internet methods for flattening the sole of a plane. Popular delusion: None were succesful.

Trust Tom when he states the above. Not to forget that steel flexes, the longer it is the more it flexes. And the timber you are working on also moves, especially if supported on a few saw horses. The only time you can touch the bottom of a plane sole is when there are some protruding nicks as the result of dropping something and mark the timber when planing.

[Clavius Walker]

Howdy Clavius, to use the PM function on this site one has to be a contributor, currently a mere cost of $6 a year.

You mention a Millers Falls #15. Is it currently incapable of performing "one specific purpose in box making"?

Can you expand some on that particular purpose?

jtk

I will definitely look into becoming a contributor, I've browsed posts off and on here for years though never really posted.

I want to use the plane to level off the bottom and top, the plane would sometimes be spanning a good distance, having the blade engaged and having the tip of the sole referencing a far side. I do this now with a LN 4 1/2 on smaller boxes but would like to use the Millers Falls for larger one. Right now the Millers Falls has a convex sole with the toe and heel being a few thousands off. It's a bit of a rarer plane as the type 1s weren't made very long, would like to use it for this purpose, contemplated buying a LN 5 1/2 or 6 for the task but kinda like using the older tools.

[Marinus Loewensteijn]

......
I want to use the plane to level off the bottom and top, the plane would sometimes be spanning a good distance, having the blade engaged and having the tip of the sole referencing a far side. I do this now with a LN 4 1/2 on smaller boxes but would like to use the Millers Falls for larger one.
.....
.....

I'm not 100% clear on what you are trying to do.

FWIW: If one leg of a chair is not in the same plane as the other three then I would mount the plane upside down in a vise and have the other legs on the benchtop and move the chair / leg over the plane. Worked every time but your benchtop has to be flat. If you are wanting to square the edges of some timber then perhaps an edge plane may be useful but a rabbet plane with a side fence may work just as well. I've use a shoulder plane with a piece of maple clamped to its side in a pinch. (No longer can use a shoulder plane due to arthritis and no longer have one). Veritas has a magnetic fence that you can use on a benchplane and use that for squaring the edge. Several options in that regard.

[Clavius Walker]

I'm not 100% clear on what you are trying to do.

Yeah, reading what I wrote it wasn't clear, it's for leveling out the top or bottom of a box, bottom so that it'll sit flat and top so that a top will sit flat.

The box is clamped to the top of the bench with a jig with the top or bottom facing up and the plane is used to chase around the edges to bring them all into the same plane if that makes sense.

[Jim Koepke]

It makes sense to me. This does also seem like a task for a plane with a flat as possible sole.

You may want to have Tom perfect your plane's sole for you.

jtk

[J. Greg Jones]

I do this now with a LN 4 1/2 on smaller boxes but would like to use the Millers Falls for larger one. Right now the Millers Falls has a convex sole with the toe and heel being a few thousands off. It's a bit of a rarer plane as the type 1s weren't made very long, would like to use it for this purpose, contemplated buying a LN 5 1/2 or 6 for the task but kinda like using the older tools.

I’m not trying to talk you in or out of anything, but I would expect that a Type 1 Millers Falls #15 would probably fetch enough on the auction site to pay for a L-N 5-1/2 or 6. Any #15 is hard to find, an also being a Type 1 makes it pretty rare.

[Marinus Loewensteijn]

I’m not trying to talk you in or out of anything, but I would expect that a Type 1 Millers Falls #15 would probably fetch enough on the auction site to pay for a L-N 5-1/2 or 6. Any #15 is hard to find, an also being a Type 1 makes it pretty rare.

^^^ This (and when you thinker with it then it looses a lot of its collector value)

[Jim Koepke]

I’m not trying to talk you in or out of anything, but I would expect that a Type 1 Millers Falls #15 would probably fetch enough on the auction site to pay for a L-N 5-1/2 or 6. Any #15 is hard to find, an also being a Type 1 makes it pretty rare.

^^^ This (and when you thinker with it then it looses a lot of its collector value)

In the completed listings on ebay is one type 1 Millers Falls #15. It sold for ~$150.

Lie-Nielsen currently lists their #5-1/2 at $375.

If you want to save a touch of money, find an old Stanley/Bailey #6. It is only a few inches longer.

jtk

[steven c newman]

Or 2..
Stanley No. 6, x 2.JPG
depends on what sole you like, too...
Stanley No. 6, two soles.JPG
easy enough to find..

[J. Greg Jones]

In the completed listings on ebay is one type 1 Millers Falls #15. It sold for ~$150.

Lie-Nielsen currently lists their #5-1/2 at $375.

If you want to save a touch of money, find an old Stanley/Bailey #6. It is only a few inches longer.

jtk

If it’s the same one I just found, it was a buy it now from the UK, before calculating shipping. I never saw this one when the auction was active, and I check for Miller’s Falls planes every day, so I’m assuming it sold quickly with BIN. This summer I bid $175 + shipping on a Type 2 #15 here in the US, and I didn’t win the auction. It’s the only one I’ve ever seen on eBay when the auction was still active.

Having said that, I agree that a Stanley 5-1/2 or 6 or even a Millers Falls #6 (easier to find) would be less than a L-N. One additional plus for a L-N 5-1/2 or 6is that the blade and cap iron would be interchangeable with the 4-1/2 he already has.

[Clavius Walker]

If it’s the same one I just found, it was a buy it now from the UK, before calculating shipping. I never saw this one when the auction was active, and I check for Miller’s Falls planes every day, so I’m assuming it sold quickly with BIN. This summer I bid $175 + shipping on a Type 2 #15 here in the US, and I didn’t win the auction. It’s the only one I’ve ever seen on eBay when the auction was still active.

Having said that, I agree that a Stanley 5-1/2 or 6 or even a Millers Falls #6 (easier to find) would be less than a L-N. One additional plus for a L-N 5-1/2 or 6is that the blade and cap iron would be interchangeable with the 4-1/2 he already has.

Yeah, the 15 type 1s are a little rare, I only have 2 tyoe 1s the 15 and an 8 that was advertised as a 9.

I had considered the LN for that very reason, ordering the 6 with a 50 or 55 degree frog and swap it out for the one in my 4 1/2, that being said I just don't like seeing an old tool sit on the shelf and not be used.