Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 18

Thread: Cutting MDF - Dust control

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    NW Arkansas
    Posts
    1,565
    Blog Entries
    1

    Cutting MDF - Dust control

    I've been cutting sheets of half inch MDF into parts for about ten years now. First in MS, where I had decent external cyclone system that pulled most out. Most recently in my shop here in Arkansas.
    I've been using a HF DC and for past couple of years, it's been housed outside in an enclosure. This was because the unit leaked from either the bag or the cloth. MDF is super fine.
    Has worked OK, but it struggles with moisture clogging up the cloth filter and it just doesn't drop the dust into the bag as it clogs.
    Mainly using flex hose, 4". Runs are about 10-15 feet which is longer than what they should be.

    Unfortunately, my ceiling is only 8ft, sheetrocked and stippled (why stipple your shop ceiling? Only the PO knows for sure)

    So I've been looking at changing to a cyclone to help. I will most probably move the new unit back into shop, I can keep an eye on it better and dump properly. Maybe next year build better enclosure that will keep it dryer or enclose a corner if I think I need to....
    Not worried about noise, shop tools are noisy enough to need hearing protection any way.
    Will run a line from rear of shop where DC will be straight towards front with probably a drop at rear and one in center and one in front. Will keep the flex down to maybe 4 to 8 feet max. (drop from ceiling to tool)

    Question for anyone using much MDF, will the Cyclone help? or will a lot go through to the main filter?
    Looking at the 1 1/2 Grizzly or maybe the 2HP, I'm limited to amperage coming to the shop, would be able to plug in the 110v but rewire for the 2HP 220V machine.
    (YES, obviously the 2 is better, but will either help in this situation)
    Woodworking, Old Tools and Shooting
    Ray Fine RF-1390 Laser
    Ray Fine 20watt Fiber Laser
    PM2000, Delta BS, Delta sander, Powermatic 50 jointer,
    Powermatic100-12 planer, Rockwell 15-126 radial drill press
    Rockwell 46-450 lathe, and 2 Walker Turner RA1100 radial saws

    RIA 22TCM 1911s

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Okotoks AB
    Posts
    1,226
    Generally speaking, a taller cyclone will separate the fines out better than the stubby ones. I have an Oneida and it seems to separate the fine stuff out really well. Very little get through to the filter. Unless I forget to empty the drum & it over fills. Don't do that.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Putney, Vermont
    Posts
    678
    I bought the harbor freight dust collector, and immediately bought the Wynn filter that fits it and made a separator for the top of a trash can where 99% of the material goes. Works well and was worth the extra money to me.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Medina Ohio
    Posts
    3,760
    I use a Thien separator on my HF dust collector that works very well

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    NW Arkansas
    Posts
    1,565
    Blog Entries
    1
    I just hate the leakage of the HF bags. Both upper and lower. That's why its outside the shop. Nothing more frustrating than seeing dust blowing out of a gap in the bag. And the MDF is finer than any other wood dust.
    Woodworking, Old Tools and Shooting
    Ray Fine RF-1390 Laser
    Ray Fine 20watt Fiber Laser
    PM2000, Delta BS, Delta sander, Powermatic 50 jointer,
    Powermatic100-12 planer, Rockwell 15-126 radial drill press
    Rockwell 46-450 lathe, and 2 Walker Turner RA1100 radial saws

    RIA 22TCM 1911s

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Boone, NC
    Posts
    341
    Get rid of the cloth filter bag and replace it with a Wynn Environmental canister type filter that fits that specific collector. I've had one on mine for 4 years or so now and there's no comparison. The stock cloth filter is maybe rated at 5 micron filtration and the Wynn I have is 0.5 micron. The Wynn filter will probably set you back around $150, but it's well worth it if you plan to stick with the HF collector for a little while.

    I use the clear plastic (impermeable) bag on the bottom and it's well sealed. I also made a Thien separator / baffle on top of a 30 gal trash can that is before the impeller and catches most of the chips and dust until it starts to fill and come over into the clear plastic bag.

    It's not perfect by any means but a modified HF unit is probably the best you're going to get for the money.
    That's just like, your opinion, man.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Davis, CA
    Posts
    262
    If you do not have one, get a Dylos dc1100 air monitor so you know what the air is really like in your shop. You only get one set of lungs.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    NW Arkansas
    Posts
    1,565
    Blog Entries
    1
    Agreed. I cleaned it up today, removed the cloth and emptied the bag. Way more suction with nothing on top. I think I'll give it a trial with zero collection. Its outside and I've no neighbors to harass.
    Woodworking, Old Tools and Shooting
    Ray Fine RF-1390 Laser
    Ray Fine 20watt Fiber Laser
    PM2000, Delta BS, Delta sander, Powermatic 50 jointer,
    Powermatic100-12 planer, Rockwell 15-126 radial drill press
    Rockwell 46-450 lathe, and 2 Walker Turner RA1100 radial saws

    RIA 22TCM 1911s

  9. #9
    Not sure which Grizzly you're talking about, but I've got the Grizzly G0443 1 1/2 HP cyclone. Just a minor warning if you think it's going to be plug-in play without any electrical work, it has an inrush of 73 amps, and Grizzly suggests putting it on a 30 Amp breaker for this reason. 30 amps is a bit unusual for 110V. (Generally 15/20 amp are the norm). In theory it might work fine on a 20 amp circuit, since the running voltage is below 20 amps, but I wouldn't bet on it.

    I would have gone with 220 V it that was an option without buying a more expensive upgrade kit, so I've stuck with 110V.

    Not sure what the requirements are for the mobile cyclones they've introduced, I'd check the instructions before I bought one just to make sure whatever circuit you're thinking about plugging it into can handle the load.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    NW Arkansas
    Posts
    1,565
    Blog Entries
    1
    Yeah, I read your prior posts... And no, one of the two new models, the 1 1/2 HP, 110v #860 model is 15 amps (what my supposedly 2hp HF pulls) or the 220V #861 2HP that pulls 9amps. I'd have to run power for that one.

    I have the HF trip the breaker if I have anything on that 20 amp circuit, but I'd move new machine to a separate circuit that I don't have anything on at this time. I'm going to play with some scrap today and see what the HF does and decide if road trip to Springfield is warranted tomorrow. (I'm only 2 hours away)
    Woodworking, Old Tools and Shooting
    Ray Fine RF-1390 Laser
    Ray Fine 20watt Fiber Laser
    PM2000, Delta BS, Delta sander, Powermatic 50 jointer,
    Powermatic100-12 planer, Rockwell 15-126 radial drill press
    Rockwell 46-450 lathe, and 2 Walker Turner RA1100 radial saws

    RIA 22TCM 1911s

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Tippecanoe County, IN
    Posts
    489
    Quote Originally Posted by John Lifer View Post
    Yeah, I read your prior posts... And no, one of the two new models, the 1 1/2 HP, 110v #860 model is 15 amps (what my supposedly 2hp HF pulls) or the 220V #861 2HP that pulls 9amps. I'd have to run power for that one.

    I have the HF trip the breaker if I have anything on that 20 amp circuit, but I'd move new machine to a separate circuit that I don't have anything on at this time. I'm going to play with some scrap today and see what the HF does and decide if road trip to Springfield is warranted tomorrow. (I'm only 2 hours away)
    You might want to look at Grizzly's published performance curve for that G0860 before you commit to it. I suspect it's wrong (surely it's not that bad?) but it's what they specify.

    Here's a plot of that data along with the published G0443 curve. I've also included the HF curve based on my measured data.



    The Green line is a system curve for a 10' length of 4" flex hose. The operating points are where that line crosses the fan curves, so about 375CFM for the G0860, 450 for the HF and 575 for the G0443. Now, in reality, none of these numbers will be that good but the relative differences will track.

    It looks like the HFDC actually outperforms the G0860 but that data was taken with a new, clean bag. Neither a used bag nor a used filter will perform quite that well and the addition of a cyclone makes it even worse. Of course the Grizzly data would represent a new, clean filter too.

    Oh, fwiw, the starting current of the HFDC is 69A (my measurement).
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Beranek's Law:

    It has been remarked that if one selects his own components, builds his own enclosure, and is convinced he has made a wise choice of design, then his own loudspeaker sounds better to him than does anyone else's loudspeaker. In this case, the frequency response of the loudspeaker seems to play only a minor part in forming a person's opinion.
    L.L. Beranek, Acoustics (McGraw-Hill, New York, 1954), p.208.

  12. #12
    I think you're better off with one of the larger cyclones if you can fit it in, particularly since you're talking about running a fixed duct. The portable ones (from all companies) make some compromises to get them into that compact size. Only reason to use them would be space issues, either in ceiling height, or not wanting to dedicate shop space to the DC.

    No doubt David is correct about the fan curves, including the HF being better. Cyclones have a performance hit that isn't present in single stage DCs, like the HF model.

    However, if used in the manner designed, ie rolled around the shop, and attached to one machine at a time, only number which really matters is their top performance, since there won't be enough ducting to cause a lot of static pressure.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Toronto Ontario
    Posts
    9,470
    Hi John, if you’re using a table saw you’ll need below and above blade collection.

    That means you’ll need about 700 to 800 CFM, something you won’t achieve with a small collector or 4 inch hose.....Regards, Rod

  14. #14
    Your existing set up will work if you bypass the filters and exhaust outside into a bin.

    Or you can add a cyclone and exhaust either outside or into a cannister filter

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    NW Arkansas
    Posts
    1,565
    Blog Entries
    1
    Going cheap. I'm moving my HF to rear of shop, still outside and will revise my current box. No filter. (and is pulls way more air this way) If it catches in the bag, then good. If not, it will disperse or I'll rake up once in a while. Bottom of the box is open and I'll elevate it more for this ability. No issue with the dust, chips out back anyway.
    Will have 90 at DC (5" metal) 10 feet straight up then 90 into the building at ceiling line. Long straight 4" with 3 or 4 tapered Y's to drop to machines. 30 ft straight shot and short flex should work as well or better than 30 ft of flex on the floor......(which is decent now) And getting the crap off the floor is critical. I'm getting too old to fall on concrete.

    Still looking at gates at each location, I'll put them high, below the Y's so will probably make some.
    I like the angles gates I've seen others make, and these would be easier to pull both directions. We'll see.


    Anyone want to offer suggestions on these, please do so.
    Woodworking, Old Tools and Shooting
    Ray Fine RF-1390 Laser
    Ray Fine 20watt Fiber Laser
    PM2000, Delta BS, Delta sander, Powermatic 50 jointer,
    Powermatic100-12 planer, Rockwell 15-126 radial drill press
    Rockwell 46-450 lathe, and 2 Walker Turner RA1100 radial saws

    RIA 22TCM 1911s

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •