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Thread: Seen at Menard's?

  1. #1
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    Question Seen at Menard's?

    In addition to the Irwin/Marples chisels.......they have the Irwin/ Record No. 4 smooth plane.....$20?

    i looked it over, wasn't really in need of one....Lever cap uses a brass thumbscrew, instead. Set it back on the shelf....and left the aisle...

    Anyone see one of these?

  2. #2
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    No, but Iíll go look tomorrow. I mean, how bad can it be for $20?

  3. #3
    Not sure about the Bailey pattern planes, but stay away from the no.60 1/2's, unless you like learning to sort out the Azimuth error, and making the movable mouth parallel with the sole.
    I failed to do this properly with two no.60 1/2's, but could probably sort it by now.

    My mistake was mainly down to mindless lapping of the sole, thinking just rubbing it very carefully on a surface plate with taut sandpaper, and keeping the abrasive clean, would make a surface flat.
    What a numpty I was, looking for an even scratch pattern across the surface.
    This wont work without hollowing the sole out first.
    If you don't believe me, watch anyone on youtube doing this approach, what they don't show you, is the test at the end with feelers.
    Doing this will produce a convex surface with an even scratch pattern.
    Surprising how many tutorials are out there from all the top guru's doing it wrong!



    And if you wish to file the bed, to sort out the Azimuth error, magic marker the entire surface, and stay away from the very end/rear of the bed...
    If you take too much off the rear of the bed, the plane iron won't sit tight at the mouth, where it needs to be, and will have a gap between the iron, and the mouth.
    Use Bill Carters blunt chisel technique, with a cheapo chisel.

    You live, you learn, I have become a better craftsperson because of my hard learned lessons.

    Tom
    Last edited by Tom Trees; 07-12-2019 at 1:30 AM.

  4. #4
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    You live, you learn, I have become a better craftsperson because of my hard learned lessons.
    If a person doesn't learn from their mistakes, chances are they will never learn anything.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  5. #5
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    It is still sitting there, on the shelf...last I looked...was in the store for 1 x 6s for drawer sides...and a box or two of screws...

    I also passed on another "No. 4" plane shaped object, this morning...also $20....

    i did spend $2 today...
    Yard sale Stanley chisels.JPG
    Might take a while, to sharpen....seen too many paint cans?
    Turned down a LOT of tools, this morning.....self-control..or...lack of room? Or..that I already had one in the shop?

  6. #6
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    I went to check it out. If you know what you’re doing, the $20 price tag isn’t out of line. That being said,the casting looks as if it was sanded with a 40 grit belt, all the way around, very rough. The bottom is, my guess, about 15-20 thou from flat, though a lot of that is the little heel thing that’s sticking way down. Some time on a 120 grit belt on a glass plate would help a lot. There was a little backlash in the adjustment mechanism, but not out of line. Brass adjustment nut, nice touch. Plastic tote and knob. The blade could use some serious sharpening, looking like it was rough ground and let be. It is definitely not ready to go right from the box. And there’s cosmoline on everything. A couple hours by someone who knows how to set up a plane and it might be a passable user.

    All in all, my type 9 Stanley with a Hock blade is better.

  7. #7
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    On their web site, the price is $16.39, and they're doing one of their 11% mail-in rebate deals, so it's $14.59 before sales tax. At that price point, it's almost a disposable. Says it's a clearance item. Don't know for sure if they would honor the lower price at your local stores, but I would think so.

    If you're looking for a new No. 4 and don't want to pay Veritas or LN prices, I've been pleased with the Stanley Sweetheart No. 4 Home Depot sells for ~ $90.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    If a person doesn't learn from their mistakes, chances are they will never learn anything.

    jtk
    Agreed, but I am annoyed that there is not a tutorial anywhere, paid or free, which shows the correct procedure on how to lap a plane correctly, but umpteen videos with
    all the big names in woodworking, and they're doing it wrong.

    I could have learned by watching a video if one existed, rather than messing a few planes up, and having to do much work to fix.
    I had to figure out how to lap them correctly on my own!

    I won't get into the quick way, for fear of someone overdoing it, so here is the slow correct way, as follows, because it is not mentioned anywhere.
    There is however a luthier that shows the quick correct way, but I fear that someone might wreck their plane by scraping, he knows his onions.


    Producing a flat surface by means of lapping with abrasives, involves having a surface plate, abrasives, a marker, some feeler gauges or what have you, and another flat surface to check tolerance.
    I use some self adhesive fine sandpaper, that is less than the width, and length of the plane your going to flatten.

    First check the plane on the surface plate, which has the blade retracted and tensioned as you would when in use, see where the high spots are, you may need to take the high spots off however you like, won't tell you my way which is risky for the beginner, but you could just get a wee block with more self adhesive abrasive and work on the very high spots


    I buy sandpaper off the roll, or in 5 metre lengths, and cut it in half lengthways,
    I buy a few grits, and work through them.
    Cover the entire surface with magic marker
    I can lay the abrasive which is the same length and width as the stuck down paper, and proceed to hollow out the plane.

    The abrasive stays put, on top of the other stuck down abrasive.
    Never touching the perimeter of the plane, so the edges stays whatever flavour you like.
    Check across the width of your plane regularly with a ruler or a try square blade, you should see no light, but the marker ink is still on the edges.
    Use your own judgement on when to switch to a finer abrasive, saying that, its probably safest to start with a fine grit, and see how things are in the first place.
    Once you have hollowed out the middle, you only need just a few swipes of full width abrasive to finish it off.
    Really, just a few swipes is all you need


    You will find this a lot quicker than chasing your tail producing a convex surface, like all the pro's demonstrate.


    Have fun
    Tom
    Last edited by Tom Trees; 07-12-2019 at 6:37 PM.

  9. #9
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    I have a pair of Millers Falls No. 9 smooth planes ( same size as a Stanley #4) and a pair of Stanley #4 smooth planes...

    Other than the plastic handles, and the depth adjuster colours.....it looks a lot like the one Lowes tries to sell..a Kobalt....

    Seen a #4 while out on the Yard Sale Trail, today....also $20...may go back tomorrow, and see how much the price has dropped....looked about like the one H-F sells..there was even the block plane thingy sitting beside it....Hmmmm...

  10. #10
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    The woodworking club I’ve joined has no appreciation for hand tools. There is a HF smoother in the cabinet. Gotta say, the Menards/Irwin/Record model is much better than the HF version of a smoother. That is, unless you can find a Stanley or Miller’s Falls smoother for twice the price.

  11. #11
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    Tom; have you actually tried what you preach.

    Not sure about the Bailey pattern planes, but stay away from the no.60 1/2's, unless you like learning to sort out the Azimuth error, and making the movable mouth parallel with the sole.
    I failed to do this properly with two no.60 1/2's, but could probably sort it by now.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Trees View Post
    Not sure about the Bailey pattern planes, but stay away from the no.60 1/2's, unless you like learning to sort out the Azimuth error, and making the movable mouth parallel with the sole.
    I failed to do this properly with two no.60 1/2's, but could probably sort it by now.

    My mistake was mainly down to mindless lapping of the sole, thinking just rubbing it very carefully on a surface plate with taut sandpaper, and keeping the abrasive clean, would make a surface flat.
    What a numpty I was, looking for an even scratch pattern across the surface.
    This wont work without hollowing the sole out first.
    If you don't believe me, watch anyone on youtube doing this approach, what they don't show you, is the test at the end with feelers.
    Doing this will produce a convex surface with an even scratch pattern.
    Surprising how many tutorials are out there from all the top guru's doing it wrong!



    And if you wish to file the bed, to sort out the Azimuth error, magic marker the entire surface, and stay away from the very end/rear of the bed...
    If you take too much off the rear of the bed, the plane iron won't sit tight at the mouth, where it needs to be, and will have a gap between the iron, and the mouth.
    Use Bill Carters blunt chisel technique, with a cheapo chisel.

    You live, you learn, I have become a better craftsperson because of my hard learned lessons.

    Tom

    It seems to me this warrants it's own separate thread. I'd love to read the ensuing discussion.

  13. #13
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    There is however a luthier that shows the quick correct way, but I fear that someone might wreck their plane by scraping, he knows his onions.
    The following is the Luthier's video that Tom mentions;

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvZFOyo63Ks

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie Simpson View Post
    Tom; have you actually tried what you preach.
    Haven't sorted out the Azimuth error on a no.60 1/2 plane, so the iron is ground and honed with a skew to compensate for this, like many do,
    but I have learned the lesson of the importance of the rear of the bed, whilst making a Bill Carter style dovetail shoulder plane.

    Documented on a uk forum, not sure if I can mention the forums name, but there's only three popular forums, and one starts with uk.
    my handle is similar, but not the same, I must do a wee update on that thread now that my workshop is clean.
    I was working on a tablesaw and other metalwork for the last while.

    That plane which still has the Azimuth error is at the folks place, where I plane cement stained plywood and things like that, for odd jobs, but not fine woodworking

    As said I learned the hard way regarding plane soles, and made this mistake on more than those two cheap 60 1/2's.
    Embarrassing, that I didn't learn it the second time round, but learned hard, when it finally took the biscuit when lapping a no.8 plane.
    These errors become very noticable, and it's a lot of work when you mess one of those up.

    At the same time, with the no.60 1/2, you can easily notice the movable shoe not being coplanar with the sole, when its moved to tighten up, or open the mouth.

    I'm off to the workshop tonight, because you've goaded me to finish that thread off with some obligatory shavings, as that's the rule in my head
    for plane WIP's.
    Thanks for the kick up the ar#e Stewie
    I was sorting big boxes of bolts and screws etc last night, and haven't got stuck into my work since last year.
    I was making a Klausz workbench before the halt, and keen to get stuck into it again, but the mess in the workshop was overwhelming.
    The Magic tablesaw from Italy needed work to make some more space in there, and now its a lovely colour in Claas green.
    I am quite pleased with it, and now I can get back to work on this reclaimed Iroko.

    Tom
    Last edited by Tom Trees; 07-12-2019 at 7:58 PM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Ragatz View Post
    On their web site, the price is $16.39, and they're doing one of their 11% mail-in rebate deals, so it's $14.59 before sales tax. At that price point, it's almost a disposable. Says it's a clearance item. Don't know for sure if they would honor the lower price at your local stores, but I would think so.
    at my menards they have the stanley files moved and on clearance. I did see the planes moved to the same spot but did not look at prices.

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