Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 58

Thread: Squaring Up Really Long Boards... Tips?

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Strathmore, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    12
    Quote Originally Posted by Erich Weidner View Post
    What I really want is for the slab (really a giant panel) to be gapless. It is a bar top, I don't want places for spills to run into and wreak havoc with the wood.
    What about cutting the long boards into shorter ones and offsetting the end joints throughout the length. That way you are only edge jointing short pieces which might be easier to accomplish a gapless fit. Of course, that introduces the issue of a square joint on the ends. If it is a bar top, wouldn't you want to put a proper finish on it so a tiny gap would be filled by the finish, not?

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    116
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Gibney View Post
    If you think you'll use the longer track saw in the future my advise is to get it, join it with your 7' track, and rip the edges with your track saw.
    After a good night's sleep. While getting showered I came to the conclusion that I am going to get the long track and give that a go. (The clock is ticking). I'll see if I can make any progress that way, and if I'm ahead of schedule I'll probably try doing a few boards by hand again the way Derek and Chris have suggested.

    Thanks all for the advice and moral support.
    I'm off to do battle with the wood again.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    59
    I have tried joining two plywood pieces of ~7 ft length once to make a wider piece. Did it before I owned a hand plane or powered jointer. Sharing my experience, may be it will help.

    I tried using my Jobsite table saw to get a straight edge. Goes without saying approach was not successful. Bunch of internet searches and found an approach that worked.

    From memory:
    - Straight line rip both boards using table saw.
    - Glue boards together. Don't bother about minor (< 1/16") gaps.
    - While gluing the board keep weight on both the boards to keep them flat. I did not know about cauls back then.
    - Superglue some horizontal wood or plywood pieces at ends and maybe two in middle. Since edges are not glued nicely this serves as reinforcement.
    - After glue dries cut them again at glue line. Use a fine finish blade. I think I used a Freud melamine cutting blade from Homedepot.
    - Reglue the boards back.

    I might have gotten lucky but it worked.

    I used epoxy as final glue. Joined board was later sanded and painted.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    116
    I forgot to take a picture, but I got one 11' x 27" panel glued up today. It is still in the clamps.
    The second panel is cut. 2 down, 4 to go.

    I ended up buying the longest track woodcraft had and combining it with my existing long-ish track. It was more than long enough for 16' boards.
    Back at it tomorrow evening after day job.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    South West Ontario
    Posts
    872
    Anuj, your double cut method relies on the width of the second cut removing some of the error from the first cut, which it will, it could be repeated as required. For real wood however the edge finish from the saw is not as good as a planed edge that could produce an almost invisible join, depending on the grain.
    As for edge joining plywood where half the layered wood is running the wrong way, the result is more cosmetic than structural. Your choice of epoxy was wise as a gap filling adhesive!
    ​You can do a lot with very little! You can do a little more with a lot!

  6. #36
    Erich,

    Sounds like you've got a handle on it, but I would offer a few suggestions:

    Be aware a long board must be well supported along its length or it may bow in the middle as you plane.

    Have you checked your plane for flatness? Any slight variations at the toe or heel of the plane will affect the beginning and end of the board.

    I will mention planing technique. I hope I'm not insulting you but just for edification, lots of toe pressure at the beginning, and little to no toe pressure at the the end. Also, I like to hold my hand low on the tote for me it seems to work better.

    Finally, +1 on spring joint & grain direction (if hand planing).

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    Posts
    6,092
    Blog Entries
    7
    First thing is to forget about the ticking clock, and the wood will win every battle so it needs to become an ally.

    Next, you need better prepare yourself for this job. You need a longer straight edge, a 4' isn't going to be all that helpful. 96" is where I would start, that will give you a better idea of where the edge is overall. Then you need to prepare two edges to meet. Get them close, then tune them to mate each other rather than trying to get the entirety of each board perfectly flat and square.

    A slight gap in the center is needed for a tight glue up, the gap closes with clamping in the center and the edges become very tight.

    I do long glue ups with a lot of clamps, two boards at a time. I clamp every 6"-8".

    Winding sticks are the most important tool that the hand tool user (or any woodworker) has, use them to check your edge for accuracy to itself, not to the board face. If the board face is out of square then referencing it is useless. You'll need a general squareness, but once that is accomplished the edge needs to be flat in order to mate well to the accompanying edge.

    This is the biggest area of screw up with long thin board edges in my experience. People check along the edge with a square, not realizing that the board reference face is not perfectly flat, and then the two boards won't mate well when edged up together even though they're both interpreted as square. A winding stick removes that source of error.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Longview WA
    Posts
    19,814
    Blog Entries
    1
    Brian's suggestion about winding sticks clicked and reminded me of an online write up on making straight edges for use as winding sticks:

    https://www.scribd.com/document/5009...s-from-Scratch

    Page two of this requires one to sign up for an account at the SCRIBD site. It will be in your Private Messages.

    Using this method you can make 11' winding sticks which should be easy to glue up with or without spring.

    jtk
    Last edited by Jim Koepke; 07-08-2019 at 8:43 PM. Reason: wording
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    Posts
    6,092
    Blog Entries
    7
    Jim, the winding sticks should be about 12-16” long. Any longer and they will be difficult to balance on an edge.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Longview WA
    Posts
    19,814
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Holcombe View Post
    Jim, the winding sticks should be about 12-16” long. Any longer and they will be difficult to balance on an edge.
    My wording was likely misleading. My point is using the method of making winding sticks, with the three straight faces, could work for making 11' pieces that match to be glued.

    Many of the techniques mentioned in this thread so far are used by machinist to make a straight edge from scratch.

    It also works for wood. The length is dependent on the one making the straight edges.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    South West Ontario
    Posts
    872
    Quote Originally Posted by brian holcombe View Post
    first thing is to forget about the ticking clock, and the wood will win every battle so it needs to become an ally.

    Next, you need better prepare yourself for this job. You need a longer straight edge, a 4' isn't going to be all that helpful. 96" is where i would start, that will give you a better idea of where the edge is overall. Then you need to prepare two edges to meet. Get them close, then tune them to mate each other rather than trying to get the entirety of each board perfectly flat and square.

    A slight gap in the center is needed for a tight glue up, the gap closes with clamping in the center and the edges become very tight.

    I do long glue ups with a lot of clamps, two boards at a time. I clamp every 6"-8".

    Winding sticks are the most important tool that the hand tool user (or any woodworker) has, use them to check your edge for accuracy to itself, not to the board face. If the board face is out of square then referencing it is useless. You'll need a general squareness, but once that is accomplished the edge needs to be flat in order to mate well to the accompanying edge.

    This is the biggest area of screw up with long thin board edges in my experience. People check along the edge with a square, not realizing that the board reference face is not perfectly flat, and then the two boards won't mate well when edged up together even though they're both interpreted as square. A winding stick removes that source of error.
    this is excellent advise!
    Last edited by Prashun Patel; 07-09-2019 at 9:46 AM.
    ​You can do a lot with very little! You can do a little more with a lot!

  12. #42
    Home depot has 8' length Empire level. Has worked for me pretty well as a reference and was only around $100 some 2-3 years ago.

  13. #43
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    116
    For better or for worse, I'm forging ahead with the panel glue-ups after using the track saw. Gaps seem to be closing pretty well. Using cauls and clamping about every 12". I need to get more clamps...

    The first glue up definitely "cupped" I'm dealing with 7 boards to make the width (the original, now fired trim carpenter ripped everything at 5"). Definitely the 2nd panel glue up went better tonight. Much flatter. I have (a minor) surgery on Thursday. Will likely be out of commission through Fri-Sat, and need this installed (even if unfinished) by Tuesday to not impact deadlines. Between day job and this, 14-16 hour days have become the norm. Can't wait to get through this.

    My normal perfectionism is getting beaten down by fatigue. I'm discovering "good enough".

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    59
    Quote Originally Posted by William Fretwell View Post
    Anuj, your double cut method relies on the width of the second cut removing some of the error from the first cut, which it will, it could be repeated as required. For real wood however the edge finish from the saw is not as good as a planed edge that could produce an almost invisible join, depending on the grain.
    As for edge joining plywood where half the layered wood is running the wrong way, the result is more cosmetic than structural. Your choice of epoxy was wise as a gap filling adhesive!
    I agree. Back then did not know any better.

    After experiencing the finish from hand plane, I fix the saw marks now.
    Previously these marks used to be invisible


    I am a big fan of epoxy. I consider it a project saver for beginners (specifically for imperfect joinery).

  15. #45
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Longview WA
    Posts
    19,814
    Blog Entries
    1
    I am a big fan of epoxy. I consider it a project saver for beginners (specifically for imperfect joinery).
    My experience is based on the 'old school' of soldering. Before printed circuit boards one needed to have a strong mechanical joint before securing it with solder. That had an influence on my thoughts on joinery in wood.

    Though one thing that is great with epoxy is it will fill and hold across gaps.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •