Quick circuit breaker question for sparkies

[Andrew Seemann]

As Mike says above, you need to understand what is going on with the AC and heater wiring to know if the breakers should be tied or not. Based on the breaker labeling, it looks like that the two breakers may have started with their handles tied together. At some point that tie appears to have been removed. The question is why it was removed. Was it done by a licensed electrician for a legitimate reason, or by some DIYer that had no idea what they were doing?

The distinction is important, because if it is legit, it should be left alone. But, if it isn't, it should be fixed for the reasons noted above, e.g. potentially leaving the 240 circuit energized at 120 if only one breaker trips. My suspicion is that it wasn't an electrician, as they likely would have used a correctly labeled breaker in the first place, but it is possible that an electrician was short one breaker and removed the handle to avoid running back to the shop. That said, I have never seen a 45A 120V circuit before for this kind of wiring, and I have no idea why a manufacturer would make a unit requiring two separate 45A 120V circuits; that is suspicious to say the least. Either way, you have no way of knowing now.

No offense, but if you are scared of removing the cover, you don't have the knowledge or experience to safely trace the circuit back to AC or heater unit and determine if it should be a single or double pole breaker. Have a licensed sparky come and give it a look over; it will be much safer and cheaper in the long run.

[John K Jordan]

... I think these must be just missing that bar. The second breaker says “Common trip” on it. ... Does that indicate that it’s a tandem breaker with the top one, 230V pair?

I also wondered if someone simply removed the gang connection bar. A common trip breaker has two halves for 220v single phase and three sections for three phase power. I have never seen a common trip breaker without a mechanical connection on the handles.

I understood common trip breakers would internally trip both sides on a fault on one side and the connection bar is there to insure both sides are disconnected when manually shut off. But I admit to having never seen one with the connection bar removed nor have I tried removing a connection bar and trying turning off one side at a time to see what that does. You certainly wouldn't want to be able to turn off one side and not the other. A quick test of yours with a meter or circuit tester could confirm if it was unsafe. (Test should be done by someone with knowledge and experience.)

JKJ

[Alan Lightstone]

As Mike says above, you need to understand what is going on with the AC and heater wiring to know if the breakers should be tied or not. Based on the breaker labeling, it looks like that the two breakers may have started with their handles tied together. At some point that tie appears to have been removed. The question is why it was removed. Was it done by a licensed electrician for a legitimate reason, or by some DIYer that had no idea what they were doing?

The distinction is important, because if it is legit, it should be left alone. But, if it isn't, it should be fixed for the reasons noted above, e.g. potentially leaving the 240 circuit energized at 120 if only one breaker trips. My suspicion is that it wasn't an electrician, as they likely would have used a correctly labeled breaker in the first place, but it is possible that an electrician was short one breaker and removed the handle to avoid running back to the shop. That said, I have never seen a 45A 120V circuit before for this kind of wiring, and I have no idea why a manufacturer would make a unit requiring two separate 45A 120V circuits; that is suspicious to say the least. Either way, you have no way of knowing now.

No offense, but if you are scared of removing the cover, you don't have the knowledge or experience to safely trace the circuit back to AC or heater unit and determine if it should be a single or double pole breaker. Have a licensed sparky come and give it a look over; it will be much safer and cheaper in the long run.

I will have an electrician get involved. As it turns out, I'll be getting solar batteries installed on the house, so I'll need to move some breakers. So when the electrician gets into the box, I'll get the answer.

My personal guess is that at some point the bar fell off, or someone removed it. Those breakers appear that they are set to internally trip, but why the external bar is missing from one identical AC unit, and exists on the other one, is hard to explain.

[Alan Lightstone]

Am I the only one wondering about the elevator?

Yup, I have an elevator.