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Thread: Titebond liquid hide glue and shelf life

  1. #16
    Just noticed that my 18 month old can of Behlen flakes is now rusting on the outside, rust spots showing through the paper label. I opened it and there are rust spots appearing on the inside. OK, now it goes to a glass jar with a couple of packets of silica gel.

  2. #17
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    Only buy small bottles of glue, mark the date of purchase on the bottle, and then you will always know how old the glue is.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowell holmes View Post
    Please define "1 shelf life".

    I have tight bond that is at least 12 months old. it still works.
    Most adhesives manufacturers stamp an official shelf life on their products to limit liability in case poor storage conditions cause product failure. The stated shelf life of wood glue typically is one to two years. However, the expected shelf life of many glues typically stretches well past those few years. For example, store a bottle of white or yellow wood glue (polyvinyl acetate, or PVA glue) in optimum conditions, and it can last 10 years or longer. This goes for our popular Titebondģ Original, Titebond II and Titebond III PVA glues, too.
    http://blog.titebond.com/page/how-to...or-longer-life

  4. #19
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    Charles, as a hobbyist, I may work on a dozen projects a year. Some small like boxes, some large like tables. I use a variety of glues depending on the project. In my situation, a small bottle of glue could easily become unused for over a year.

    I date each bottle and after a year or so, they get tossed/recycled. I agree with you 100% that the time and expense of wood for a project isnít worth risking on an old bottle of glue.

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Mickley View Post
    Ground hide glue is better in every way. It last indefinitely in the dry state.

    But only days after you mix it with water to use it.

    Liquid hide glue has its uses. Hot hide glue takes a bit of logistical planning and doesn't work very economically for the hobbyist who can only work in short bursts every few days or weeks. I have ground hide glue, but I keep a bottle of Liquid on hand for when I just need a few joints with it.

  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Seemann View Post
    But only days after you mix it with water to use it.

    Liquid hide glue has its uses. Hot hide glue takes a bit of logistical planning and doesn't work very economically for the hobbyist who can only work in short bursts every few days or weeks. I have ground hide glue, but I keep a bottle of Liquid on hand for when I just need a few joints with it.
    Some restoration shops keep a pot of glue hot all the time. Under these conditions the glue deteriorates and many make a fresh batch every week. If on the other hand you let the glue cool after using it, it will usually dry out and be good indefinitely.

  7. #22
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    The OP said he took the clamps off after three hours. IMO, three hours is not enough clamping time for liquid hide glue. I always leave things clamped up for 24 hours.
    Life's too short to use old sandpaper.

  8. #23
    Thereís some things I do to make hot hide glue convenient for the hobbyist low-frequency use I require.

    First, make a batch of hide glue, like 16oz or whatever, and pour it into silicone ice cube trays. Let it firm up, then place in the freezer. When frozen, pop the 1Ē cubes (about a half ounce each) out into an air-tight container and leave in the freezer. Then just take out however many cubes you need. Often I find I only need one or two. It takes about 5 minutes in my baby bottle warmer for a cube to be ready and I generally need more time than that to get my clamps together and paper out and stuff anyway, so no time is lost even if I have a spontaneous glue-up moment.

    Second, heat your glue in a jar with an air-tight lid. I use a baby food jar, but a spice jar would also work. For the unused glue from the session, if I think Iíll need it in the next two weeks, Iíll put the lid on and stick it in the fridge. It will last two weeks. If I donít think Iíll have a use for it (often), then Iíll just pour it back into the ice cube trays and make another cube. I donít think hot hide glue suffers from multiple freeze/thaw cycles like PVA glues, but regardless, youíll never have more than one extra cycle anyway so itís not a concern. BTW - if you add salt for more working time, it will last considerably longer in the fridge as salt is a preservative.

    Since I started doing this I hardly touch the TB LHG bottle. I will probably have to throw it out eventually.

  9. #24
    Some hide glue facts:

    It's a protein and its strength depends on the BIG protein molecules remaining unchanged. Water alone eventually breaks down (hydrolyzes) protein. If the water is basic or acidic this breakdown is more rapid.

    Old Brown Glue is liquefied with urea, which breaks down in water to ammonia, which is basic, which in turn breaks down the protein. If your Old Brown stinks of ammonia be warned it may be on death's door or at the morgue. Titebond is liquefied with another chemical that does not change the pH of the water over time. Hence, Titebond lasts longer than the other. Chemist at Franklin told me he has had it remain stable for 10 years refrigerated. (Cold slows down breakdown of protein. )

    If the protein remains unchanged the glue is good. Sort of complicated chemical means of testing the protein there is a quick way and a slow way. To make a fiber from a solution the stuff that is making the fiber needs to have BIG molecules, such as the original protein in hide glue. You can't make fibers from degraded protein. So, rub some liquid hide between thumb and finger and when it gets viscous pull the digits apart. If long stringy fibers can be created as you separate finger and thumb the protein has not degraded so much that the stuff won't function as a glue.

    That said, why does this myth live on that Yellow and White glue are not reversible? Has anyone seen data to support these claims? Fact- a joint made with these adhesives can be disassembled exactly the same as a hide glue joint-steam and tension. Fact: a joint can be remade with these adhesives just like hide glue. New glue sticks handily to cured glue. Franklin has done the experiments to prove it. If you want to see the data email me. My address can be found on WoodCentral site.

  10. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by bill tindall View Post

    That said, why does this myth live on that Yellow and White glue are not reversible? Has anyone seen data to support these claims? Fact- a joint made with these adhesives can be disassembled exactly the same as a hide glue joint-steam and tension. Fact: a joint can be remade with these adhesives just like hide glue. New glue sticks handily to cured glue. Franklin has done the experiments to prove it. If you want to see the data email me. My address can be found on WoodCentral site.
    I take it you've never done restoration work.

  11. #26
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    Mar 2019
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    Per Titebond, 1 year if not opened and not microwaved. It's fairly cheap, so I would toss it. I find that after a year, it thickens up quite a bit. That said, I ran some test glue ups with 10 year old Titebond Hide Glue and while it required heating, it worked fine. That said, I tossed it and got the Little Brown Glue which is essentially the same thing, maybe a little less Urea.

  12. #27
    Join Date
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    Four or five years ago, my local hardware had bottles of Tite Bond LHG clearanced out for $0.79 a bottle. They were, of course, past the date on the bottle but, nevertheless, I bought all they had on the hope that they would still be good. It was cheap enough to risk it. I didn't notice any problem with the glue at all until about 2 years ago, when I had face glued two pieces of cherry together and the glue failed horribly and actually molded on the work piece. So, the glue would have been at least three years past expiration at that point. I did keep the glue in my basement which is pretty much 55 degrees year round so I'm sure that helped.
    Your endgrain is like your bellybutton. Yes, I know you have it. No, I don't want to see it.

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