Fixing a convex sole hand plane

[Anuj Prateek]

(Huh! somehow managed to delete the reply while editing. So writing back again.)


When newbies like me read on Internet, these are the kind of numbers that get mentioned. When someone says sole should be 0.001" flat vs flat enough, then the former becomes tangible. Later one is more difficult to comprehend without experience. This is where hearing from experienced people serves as a check.

I bought the plane last year in July, and got to sharpening it now.

I mailed Patrick yesterday and exchanged few mails today. Had searched him on Google yesterday night, and did not expect any replies. Was glad and surprised that he took out time to reply to mails.

I explained him the sole flatness problem, shaving I was getting and what I was trying to do. He explained that plane is working fine and will serve its purpose. Hearing from him has put my mind at ease.

I am not going to try to fix the sole. Will focus on using it and improving my technique.


Thanks everyone!

[Doug Dawson]

Lowell; re-read the post. Those LN soles had already been machine ground to an out of flat tolerance of 0.0001. That's likely less than the 10 -fold the length of a gnats scrotum.

OP wasn't referring to a LN, he was referring to a used Stanley.

To be clear, I've never advocated sole flattening, and I've never actually done that myself. I gaze on in wonder at some people who have done it. If I get a used plane that has actually been _used_ before, it's usually fine. I _have_ previously investigated why this is.

[Jim Koepke]

OP wasn't referring to a LN, he was referring to a used Stanley.

To be clear, I've never advocated sole flattening, and I've never actually done that myself. I gaze on in wonder at some people who have done it. If I get a used plane that has actually been _used_ before, it's usually fine. I _have_ previously investigated why this is.

Of all the planes that have passed through my shop only a couple actually benefited from sole flattening. Most of my sole lapping was to get rid of rust or other cosmetic issues.

Engaging in flattening a sole takes a lot of careful planning, constant checking and verification.

jtk

[Jim Matthews]

I was trained to "fettle" cast iron plane bodies with a relief at the toe and heel - the idea was to avoid a sharp edge.

My guess is that the OP has a tool that someone tuned.

The real test is how it handles, and the sort of surface left.

https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/...handplane.html

[Warren Mickley]

(Huh! somehow managed to delete the reply while editing. So writing back again.)

I am not going to try to fix the sole. Will focus on using it and improving my technique.

Bravo! You would not believe how many people doctor the sole without even trying the plane. Then they have no feel for how much this flattening really affects the performance.

I am sure you can make great improvements with technique alone.

[Don McConnell]

Anuj,
The fact that you can detect a gap (under a straight edge I presume?) of .015", or ca. 1/64", at the toe and heel suggests to me that the sole of your plane is bowed enough to impact its performance. Especially in light of the fact that you encounter no such problems with a #4 & #5 on the same material. In fact, the improvement you describe when applying all pressure on the toe or the heel is consistent with this finding. Possibly this goes a long way toward explaining why an older plane such as this would show very little use. I suspect you're not the first potential user to be frustrated by its performance.
Under the circumstances, suggesting that you "improve" your technique by accommodating this bowing is somewhat analogous to suggesting a person "learn to use" a saw which tends to track improperly because of uneven set, &c.
Don McConnell
Eureka Springs, AR

[Doug Dawson]

Possibly this goes a long way toward explaining why an older plane such as this would show very little use. I suspect you're not the first potential user to be frustrated by its performance.

If a plane looks like it's hardly ever been used, it makes me suspicious. I like obvious users.

OTOH, some people just like'em shiny.

This is where I part with people like Sellers, what with all the lapping and refinishing and polishing. You may as well go to the next step and paint pastoral scenes on the sides of it. :^) (No disrespect to Sellers, who is otherwise a good teacher.)

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I had a plane similarly out of flat so I flattened it with some sand paper on my workbench. Did not take long and it made a difference. There were other things causing problems as well such as needing to do something with the frog. I engaged Mr. Steve Newman to sort that out.

[Steve Voigt]

Anuj,
The fact that you can detect a gap (under a straight edge I presume?) of .015", or ca. 1/64", at the toe and heel suggests to me that the sole of your plane is bowed enough to impact its performance. Especially in light of the fact that you encounter no such problems with a #4 & #5 on the same material. In fact, the improvement you describe when applying all pressure on the toe or the heel is consistent with this finding. Possibly this goes a long way toward explaining why an older plane such as this would show very little use. I suspect you're not the first potential user to be frustrated by its performance.
Under the circumstances, suggesting that you "improve" your technique by accommodating this bowing is somewhat analogous to suggesting a person "learn to use" a saw which tends to track improperly because of uneven set, &c.
Don McConnell
Eureka Springs, AR

I couldn't agree more. A sole doesn't need to be within .0001, but it for sure needs to be a lot better than .015.

[Warren Mickley]

I made my first double iron plane in 1975. I used a Stanley #4 plane and carefully flattened the sole so that no light could be seen with a straight edge. I was tickled with the result and I noticed that the new plane seemed to make an easier job of flattening stock than the old. So then for the first time I applied the straight edge to the Stanley plane and had quite a shock. It was concave, more than .015.

Of course there was an improvement in the ease of planing when I later flattened the Stanley. However, it was quite surprising that I was able to make joints and flatten stock with the sole in a poor condition. I have two examples of joints from that era; after all this time I still can't understand how I was able to do this.

I have seen internet people argue that a flat plane will necessarily plane a hollow because the iron extends below the flat sole. And I have seen people argue that if one starts with a nicely jointed edge and takes of thin shavings it will shortly become convex. I have found both of these claims to be false. I think technique is a definite factor in how the plane performs.

[Anuj Prateek]

It's actually does not show any sign of use ever. Sole has factory grind. AFAIR it's an old new stock. Only cosmetic blemish it has is two small rust spots on side.

[Anuj Prateek]

Thanks Don! Technique is where I am going to focus right now.

Going to use it as shooting plane (after I make my shooting board). Will bug the folks here as I face problems.

[Anuj Prateek]

I like them shiny Can't explain the smile the new #7 from Lee Valley brought.

I tend to buy new tools - though I won't mind saving money buying old. One thing that does deter me is that I doubt I will be able to fix the tool if something is wrong. Maybe after few years!

[Jim Koepke]

I think technique is a definite factor in how the plane performs.

Technique is what allows a good craftsperson to use a crappy tool to do a fine job.

jtk

[Don McConnell]

So ... the idea is that one can demonstrate/experience a superiority of skill/technique through using a "crappy tool" to do the job? So, how far does this go? For example, is it even "better" if one doesn't bother to sharpen the iron, make lateral adjustments, neglect the fit of the cap iron (if there is one), &c, &c.?
In my experience, a poorly tuned tool is more likely to lead to poor technique due to stress induced by the unnecessary effort to get such a tool to work. Witness the "death grip" often developed during the use of an improperly sharpened and set saw.
My primary purpose in getting involved in this thread was to try and help Anuj to avoid such stress/frustration. One of the things which "hooked" me on hand tool woodworking was when I reached a point where I realized that I'd learned enough to be able to work with a plane (or any other tool) which was properly tuned for the job at hand -- and realize that the tool was actually helping me reach my goal rather than frustrate it.
Don McConnell
Eureka Springs, AR