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Thread: Felder PCS - next gen saw stoppage?

  1. #1

    Felder PCS - next gen saw stoppage?

    I'm a bit surprised this hasn't been shared here yet...

    Felder introduced it's new "Preventative Contact System" (PCS) at the Ligna trade show in Europe.

    https://www.woodworkingnetwork.com/t...l-saw-injuries

    This system drops the sawblade in milliseconds using non-destructive electromagnetic repulsion. From what I can tell from info I have found, the detection system is based on proximity or possibly a material behavior algorithm (my phrase) rather than the capacitance method that SawStop uses. This system appears to have two significant improvements over SawStop. 1) non-destructive operation and 2)no actual blade contact required for detection.

    Lots of questions remain unanswered.

    How does detection work?
    Does it infringe on SawStop/Tooltronic (Festool) patents?
    Can it be cost effectively applied to less industrial scale equipment ie: cheap tablesaws?
    Can it be applied to other equipment such as bandsaws, shapers, jointers, etc?
    Will Felder give away their intellectual property to other equipment manufacturers to better mankind?
    If the government forces us all to buy Felder tablesaws will we have to speak Austrian?
    Kevin Groenke
    @personmakeobject on instagram
    Fabrication Director,UMN College of Design (retired!)


  2. #2
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    IIRC, Austrians speak German and Hungarian.

    This looks interesting to me, I’m curious to see how long it takes before a retrofit becomes available, if ever.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  3. #3
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    That is wild that it retracts without being touched. Is there an english version that explains how that field senses flesh?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Groenke View Post
    I'm a bit surprised this hasn't been shared here yet...

    Felder introduced it's new "Preventative Contact System" (PCS) at the Ligna trade show in Europe.

    https://www.woodworkingnetwork.com/t...l-saw-injuries

    This system drops the sawblade in milliseconds using non-destructive electromagnetic repulsion. From what I can tell from info I have found, the detection system is based on proximity or possibly a material behavior algorithm (my phrase) rather than the capacitance method that SawStop uses. This system appears to have two significant improvements over SawStop. 1) non-destructive operation and 2)no actual blade contact required for detection.

    Lots of questions remain unanswered.

    How does detection work?
    Does it infringe on SawStop/Tooltronic (Festool) patents?
    Can it be cost effectively applied to less industrial scale equipment ie: cheap tablesaws?
    Can it be applied to other equipment such as bandsaws, shapers, jointers, etc?
    Will Felder give away their intellectual property to other equipment manufacturers to better mankind?
    If the government forces us all to buy Felder tablesaws will we have to speak Austrian?
    I love it! "PCS prevents accidents and guarantees dexterity and a quality handshake forever!" A quality handshake, AND eternal life! Now there's no longer any reason for someone to avoid buying at least a SawStop!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Groenke View Post
    I'm a bit surprised this hasn't been shared here yet...

    Felder introduced it's new "Preventative Contact System" (PCS) at the Ligna trade show in Europe....
    Actually, I posted about it a few weeks ago

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  6. #6
    I received this this morning. The PCS is at 6:20.


  7. #7
    Also this page: https://www.felder-group.com/fg-en/pcs.html

    Only available on the Kappa 550.

  8. #8
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    I believe the sawstop patents have expired by now.
    Bil lD

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Dufour View Post
    I believe the sawstop patents have expired by now.
    Bil lD
    FWIW, there are all kinds of tricks you can use to extend patents. But you raise an interesting point.
    Last edited by Doug Dawson; 06-01-2019 at 1:35 AM.

  10. #10
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    Wikipedia says the earliest one expire in 2021 and they are working to extend them.

    We will see what the parent company of Festool does to protect the patents since they bought Sawstop.

  11. #11
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    There was an article recently in Woodshop News about this. Felder's detection method isn't like SawStops...it's not based on physical contact at all. They are using sensing technique that has an "invisible curtain" to detect the presence of the human body's magnetic field. It looks for sudden, rapid approach of the flesh and then triggers the stopping mechanism. It also doesn't damage the blade.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  12. #12
    We’re apparently going to have a Kappa 550 with the PCS system in the booth at IWF next year but that’s probably the first time any of us here on the US side will lay eyes on it. I assume the technology is electromagnetic but like everyone else, just assuming. Here’s what I suggest in the meantime: Someone from the central region in Texas needs to order one from me. Then, we can all know for sure

    Erik
    Felder USA Territory Representative: Central & South Texas

  13. #13
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    There exists a similar technology for meat cutting bandsaws which employs the user’s gloves.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  14. #14
    Bumping from the dead: I just got an update from product management in Austria that we WILL be able to offer the PCS feature here in the US. Apparently, Felder KG is confident that it won't present any legal challenges in regards to the patent technology. Here is what I know so far:

    -Still only available on the Kappa 550, though the K550 looks like it has been upgraded for 2021 with some nice new features.
    -PCS option should add around $10K to the machine cost.
    -Probably already mentioned, but the Preventive Contact System DOES NOT destroy the blade and allows the operator to reset the system in seconds. The technology involves industrial magnets that flip polarity when triggered, causing the saw unit to drop below the cast iron table. This system was developed in conjunction with the University of Vienna and patented by Felder.
    -I would not hold my breath for the PCS system appearing on any smaller saws any time soon.
    -Not sure what what/if is going on with AWFS this year but I would imagine we will have a PCS machine to display in Atlanta in 2022.

    Erik

    new K550.JPG
    Felder USA Territory Representative: Central & South Texas

  15. #15
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    Location
    East Coast of Florida
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    Erik, any other changes for the lower model Felder sliding tablesaws for 2021? When does the 2021 catalog get released?

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