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Thread: On the interweb....

  1. #1
    Join Date
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    On the interweb....

    Stumbled across an announcement that Robust is now offering gouges. Brent is starting with a 5/8" parabolic. http://www.turnrobust.com/product/turners-edge/

    Looks like the Robust webpage has gone through an update. Brent has posted a succinct paper on lathe maintenance that is generic-pertinent to any lathe-that may be worth a quick review for all turners. Check it out: http://www.turnrobust.com/lathe-maintenence/


  2. #2
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    Good read

    I picked up a few nuggets.
    WOOD SNIPER-Start off slow, then taper off

  3. #3
    Well, I guess it figures that Brent would get into tools eventually. I am surprised that he would go to M2 rather than M42. I tried one 'signature' gouge and couldn't figure out what was wrong with it. Found out it was the difference between M2 and M42 and V10. Oh well....

    robo hippy

  4. #4
    I didn’t see info on the steel other than “premium high speed”, but I was curious about getting a final hardness of 75Rc. That is considerably harder than Doug’s or D-Way. I wonder if it might be a bit too much to the point of micro edge fractures. But, I do like the flute design as best as I can tell.

    Left click my name for homepage link.

  5. This is pure speculation on my part, but some recent happenings made me wonder if there is a connection to the new offerings by Brent and Robust. Just a few months ago, Serious Toolworks closed, due to the retirement of a friend of mine. His tools were the hardest alloy I have used, including the Thompson's which I have the most of, and will continue to use.

    The Serious ultimate gouge really holds an edge, and I wonder if the metal that was the basis for that gouge has now been picked up by Robust......again - Pure speculation on my part, but wondering about it?

    It seems an opportunity would have been there for someone to pick up that tooling and rebrand if they wanted. If that is what Brent did, then he made another smart decision, and if it is not what he did, then he certainly still made another smart decision in offering this new line up of tools..........I may just have to give one a try. I know Scott told me a year before they decided to close Serious that they had gone to all parabolic flutes on the Serious gouges.

    Brent, if you read this, feel free to come on and share the correct info. I'm a fan of your product line on lathes and toolrests/accessories, so feel your new gouge lineup will also certainly be top quality..........whatever they are made from!
    Last edited by Roger Chandler; 05-25-2019 at 9:44 AM.
    Remember, in a moments time, everything can change!

    Vision - not just seeing what is, but seeing what can be!




  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Chandler View Post
    Brent, if you read this, feel free to come on and share the correct info. I'm a fan of your product line on lathes and toolrests/accessories, so feel your new gouge lineup will also certainly be top quality..........whatever they are made from!
    Back in my moderator days with SMC there arose a situation where tool makers were posting about their products and it got out of hand. The moderators took the position that tool makers should not share any marketing information regarding their tools unless they did so thru a paid banner advertising. That position may have changed, but I would think it wise to not let that situation fire up again. I like Brent, Doug, Jimmy Allen (D-Way), etc. and buy from them, but it would seem a better plan to let members post information that either is derived from experience or from publicly available information - website, etc. In other words, if Brent desires to provide that information on his website and someone else posts on SMC about it that would preclude other makers to feel the need to post a response thereby giving rise to a "tool war" thread.

    Left click my name for homepage link.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Keeton View Post
    I didn’t see info on the steel other than “premium high speed”, but I was curious about getting a final hardness of 75Rc. That is considerably harder than Doug’s or D-Way. I wonder if it might be a bit too much to the point of micro edge fractures. But, I do like the flute design as best as I can tell.
    From my reading (not from personal experimentation) I understood that the brittleness/toughness trade-off from steel hardened to high numbers and not tempered as usual for toughness can result in micro edge fractures when machining tough metals. I always wondered if it would be less of a problem when cutting wood. (Might be a problem if the shaft is not tough enough for those who like to cause massive catches!) For example, the extremely sharp carbide bits Mike Hunter uses in his tools seems to lack toughness compared to carbide metal-cutting edges I use with my metal-cutting lathe and mill, but the Hunter cutters hold up quite well when cutting wood. (Again, this is not from careful experiment but from casual observation) Bumping one of the Hunter bits even gently against steel will chip it but I've used a single bit for dozens of hours on hard woods without visible chipping or fracture, even with my microscopes.

    The Robust site says "We start with premium high-speed steel, heat treated to 64 Rockwell C. The hardened tools then go through a proprietary metallurgical process, increasing cutting edge hardness to 1880 Vickers (75+ Rockwell C)." I wish he revealed what kind of HSS. I see only 5/8" bowl gouges now but if he offers a skew or spindle gouge I'll certainly get some to evaluate.

    JKJ

  8. Quote Originally Posted by John Keeton View Post
    Back in my moderator days with SMC there arose a situation where tool makers were posting about their products and it got out of hand. The moderators took the position that tool makers should not share any marketing information regarding their tools unless they did so thru a paid banner advertising. That position may have changed, but I would think it wise to not let that situation fire up again. I like Brent, Doug, Jimmy Allen (D-Way), etc. and buy from them, but it would seem a better plan to let members post information that either is derived from experience or from publicly available information - website, etc. In other words, if Brent desires to provide that information on his website and someone else posts on SMC about it that would preclude other makers to feel the need to post a response thereby giving rise to a "tool war" thread.
    The last thing I want to do is resume or start any "tool wars!" I did not even consider that my post might be considered taboo from a moderators standpoint......never having been a moderator myself, nor never desiring to be one.

    I was just curious about any possible connection, if any, to the former tool steel related to Serious. Related to fracturing of the edge, my Serious Ultimate gouges are in the 75 rockwell hardness range, yet I've never had fracturing of the edge, but have had good service from them. The Serious Ultimate gouges I have really sharpen best on CBN wheels. Thompson's have given me superb service as well, and even some cryogenically treated HHS tools from Sheffield, UK.

    Knowing the quality of all the other Robust tools..............it would be my guess that Brent has done a fine job of starting his gouge line with some quality steel alloys, and hardening processes.
    Last edited by Roger Chandler; 05-25-2019 at 11:45 AM.
    Remember, in a moments time, everything can change!

    Vision - not just seeing what is, but seeing what can be!




  9. #9
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    To clarify, it was not the "moderators" who took any position on promotion, it was the forum membership over time and forum owners. SMC doesn't permit self-promotion/selling activities from any business (or individual acting as a business or having a financial interest of some other form, such as being a compensated "affiliate"/influencer) within the discussion forums. Forum Sponsors, who pay for the privilege, have more leeway, but it's not absolute. Anyone who has a product/service and wants to understand what they can and cannot do/say here should privately contact Keith Outten to see what arrangements can be made. Succinctly, this keeps the forum from becoming a promotional "free for all" which diminishes its value as a community.

    Jim
    Forum Moderator

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by John K Jordan View Post
    .... I wish he revealed what kind of HSS....
    If you read more closely, he says it is M2 ... at least that is what I saw when it first appeared on his website a couple weeks ago.
    Bill

  11. #11
    I emailed Brent and this was his reply - “...we start with M2, but the secret sauce is in the surface treatment, that gives an equivalent of 75 Rockwell on the cutting edge.
    We're also using a polished parabolic flute and turning the shank to a
    true diameter. Another feature that some won't realize: The gouge is
    flat on the top. If you're using a Wolverine or other sharpening jig, you
    can the jig all the way down the gouge.

    5/8" are available in stock, and we've started on our first batch of 1/2",
    due mid-July.”

    Left click my name for homepage link.

  12. #12
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    This is interesting. 75 Rockwell is really hard !! That's getting close to the hardness of carbide. When I read about the surface hardening of M2, I'm wondering if it truly is just a shallow surface treatment (like case hardening) or penetrates throughout the tool. A surface treatment that doesn't penetrate isn't going to offer much following a sharpening.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Brice Rogers View Post
    This is interesting. 75 Rockwell is really hard !! That's getting close to the hardness of carbide. When I read about the surface hardening of M2, I'm wondering if it truly is just a shallow surface treatment (like case hardening) or penetrates throughout the tool. A surface treatment that doesn't penetrate isn't going to offer much following a sharpening.
    I don't agree with your reasoning. The cutting edge is always at the surface. You don't need a hard bevel. The advantage of M2 steel is toughness. If combined with a surface treatment such as carburizing then you have a tool that is better at holding an edge with a tough core that isn't brittle like a piece of steel that has been quench hardened.
    Bill

  14. #14
    Now I am curious... I know there is a process for 'Titanium coating' or some thing like that, kind of yellow/gold color, that has been used on drill bits, and I think Sorby now has a coated set of tools like that, so that the surface is 'harder' while the under stuff is the same M2. Is what Brent done similar? I did try some of the coated drill bits and wasn't impressed... I may have to try out some of Brent's gouges just out of curiosity. Some times I prefer the parabolic flutes, some times the more open V like Thompson or D Way. Never liked the Glasser V, which was too deep/pointed of a V...

    robo hippy

  15. #15
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    Bill, you may have a point. Perhaps a very thin surface coating (perhaps 0.010" - 0.030) still provides a very hard cutting edge. After all, on a gouge, it is the inside edge that is doing the cutting rather than the softer interior of the gouge.

    I've experimented with some case hardening using a product called Kasinite. I wonder how hard that gets? I think that it is similar to carburizing but to a greater extent.

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