Shooting Planes - Are they worth it?

[Derek Cohen]

You don't need to mark tails. Space them by eye and saw them out. If the angles aren't perfectly consisten it doesn't matter, the pin board will be marked and sawn to the state of the tail board. A few degrees difference will never be noticed and the fit perfect as long as the pin board is sawn out well.

How much time do you suppose you've spent making, and keeping true, the various shooting boards I assume you must have?

Charles, it all depends on what you are building, and the standards to which you build. One size does not fit all.

No doubt a practiced pro churning out utilitarian drawers every day would not get pedantic about the angles or finer design details. Frank Klausz is just one who used to teach this. However, moving up the scale to higher end work, it pays to mark out, because one is paid for the extra attention to detail. This is the end of the scale at which I aim. I am not a professional who has to watch the clock. I enjoy the luxury of time to mark out, and I use the time to build pretty complex drawers that would not be cost-effective except to an amateur or high end maker.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Charles Guest]

London pattern, radial, sunburst, Bermuda, none of these require pristine ends to mark and cut. FYI, there's really nobody living nor that has been alive in the last 100 years or so that hand cut dovetails in a shop that could be characterized as anything but a custom maker. Hand cutting dovetails on production furniture hasn't been done since the early 1900s.

[Jim Koepke]

Hand cutting dovetails on production furniture hasn't been done since the early 1900s.

There are not many of us here making production furniture. My closest venture into something close is making multiple potting benches. The corners of the shelf frames were dovetailed. At one time the pieces to make two benches were worked at the same time. Not really production work.

One of my consignments was made for a person who likes the idea of hand made furniture over commonly available machine made furniture.

Even though some money has been made from my woodworking, my status would still likely be considered amateur or hobbyist.

jtk

[Charles Guest]

Nobody is making custom production furniture. Mr. Cohen seemed to believe I was referring to a period of time 150 years in the past which I most definitely was not.

It is not necessary to prepare individual workpieces to a flawless condition in order to cut decorative or even plain dovetails on those workpieces. Now, you may not discover how to do so as long as your time budget in which to get the work done is essentially unlimited, but I can assure you that what I am saying is true. Even custom shops have time budgets though this is no way means that the decorative and exposed joinery is any less spectacular, in fact quite the contrary. See Barnsley, et al.

[Phil Mueller]

Charles, I understand your reference to Barnsley as an example of high quality commissioned pieces. How though do you know that they do not prepare their workpieces to a flawless condition in order to cut dovetails? Not being argumentative, just curious.

[Charles Guest]

Charles, I understand your reference to Barnsley as an example of high quality commissioned pieces. How though do you know that they do not prepare their workpieces to a flawless condition in order to cut dovetails? Not being argumentative, just curious.

Because I was trained there and worked there for a time.

[Derek Cohen]

Nobody is making custom production furniture. Mr. Cohen seemed to believe I was referring to a period of time 150 years in the past which I most definitely was not.

It is not necessary to prepare individual workpieces to a flawless condition in order to cut decorative or even plain dovetails on those workpieces. Now, you may not discover how to do so as long as your time budget in which to get the work done is essentially unlimited, but I can assure you that what I am saying is true. Even custom shops have time budgets though this is no way means that the decorative and exposed joinery is any less spectacular, in fact quite the contrary. See Barnsley, et al.

Charles, I deleted a post because I did not wish to appear argumentative. I am looking forward to your experienced input. But I will now say, which was what I deleted, that you are emphasising that dovetails do not need to be “pristine” when building them, and I am not sure if anyone here - certainly not myself - shoots the ends of a board for that reason. Or thta one needs to mark out dovetails. Perhaps we are talking at crossed purposes.

I shoot the ends of boards to ensure that the baseline is easily marked off. I think that we will agree that a baseline is needed, and that this needs to be square across the side? I find it more efficient to do so from the end with a cutting gauge than scribing a line from the side. Are you saying that you saw your dovetails without squaring the ends?

Secondly, I align boards when transferring from the rear when the tail baseline touches the edge of the pin board. The pin board must be square. So again the issue is one of square ... unless you have another method here.

Current carcase I am working on (mitred through dovetails) ...






Lastly, I prefer to mark out boards for accuracy since dovetailing is often more complex on my pieces that one generally find on a simple, squared drawer. Generally my drawers involve compound angles.



Incidentally, by “production” I meant making more than one of a design at the same time, and not as you appear to mean, making hundreds. Neither has much place on this forum, where generally one piece is made at a time, and not done so against a clock.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Phil Mueller]

Wow, Charles, that’s really impressive. Their (your!) work is really outstanding. Appreciate your time to share your experience and expertise with us.

[Rob Luter]

As I learned with golf clubs, you can’t always “buy a better game”. When it comes to the right tool for the right job, many times you can.