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Thread: Clear Vue Cyclones - how can they cost so little?

  1. #16
    I went with the clearvue for the price. But the few things I can see as to what makes the price difference

    -Some assembly required aspect of the clearvue( if you value your time at anything the clearvue will take a couple more hours to put together.
    -Fit and finish is not as nice on the clearvue
    -Plastic is much cheaper to form than metal
    -Im not sure how well the plastic will hold up if dc picks up a random chunk of metal. I was standing next to it when a small cutoff of wood(1"x1"x1) got sucked through almost pooped my pants
    -Dont forget to figure in extra for assembly stuff, screws, caulk, etc

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ole Anderson View Post
    Actually the blower and inlet and separator on the Oneida are now some kind of molded plastic, I presume so they can get a better inlet configuration than available from fabricated metal. 3 hp V series is about $2500 though.
    Depends upon the model, but Oneida is now using resin/composites for some components as you mention, particularly on the blowers because it helps with cost structures and provides opportunity to do some design things that would be harder to do in metal...which you elude to. Resin/composite can really be engineered to make for a very smooth airflow path in a "mathematical" way much easier than trying to get heavy metal to do compound things all at once. The resin/composite being post separation means it can still work for the professional side in that area. The rest of the Oneida cyclones are very heavy steel which certainly gives them an edge on the more professional shop side of things and where there is less price sensitivity. ClearVue, while recently releasing the heavier metal unit, has been laser focused on the hobbyist and small shop and provide a nice product for a surprising cost. It's also a "long cone" design which is very desirable for performance. Oneida is also "long cone", albeit with a slightly different ratio than ClearVue.

    George is correct that ClearVue also provides you with the opportunity to actually build the system rather than just unboxing and assembling a fully functional system like Oneida provides. That certainly enters into the cost.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  3. #18
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    Dust, er, metal collection.

    Quote Originally Posted by George Yetka View Post
    -Im not sure how well the plastic will hold up if dc picks up a random chunk of metal.
    I've put a lot of wood chunks through mine, accidentally and on purpose. I have a nozzle immediately behind the lathe spindle. Also plastic, sandpaper, the neighbor's cat, (just kidding!)
    I've had to dig through the bin several times to get stuff back. The inlet to the cyclone slides whatever it picks up gently into the swirl path rather than hurl it into the inside of the cyclone.

    Did you ever catch this short video?



    I thought the notice at the end was funny.

    JKJ

  4. #19
    Wow thats pretty amazing. The sound I heard when I kicked it on to check rotation was terrifying. I didnt have the exhaust run yet, maybe thats why it was such a loud bang?

  5. #20
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    The original poster and others are assuming that the retail cost of an item is normally some fixed percentage over the cost of manufacture. Nothing could be further from the truth. Things are priced according to the law of supply and demand. An item's perceived value may permit a much higher price. For example, Oneida has a better reputation than other manufacturers, and can charge a very big premium for their equipment even though the performance may be very mediocre, regardless of the cost of manufacture. Some of Oneida's really high margin items are their "Dust Deputy" cyclones. I have been in a position to purchase large quantities of molded plastic and have a good idea of what the cost to manufacture is. They probably make 500+ percent on them. I bought two different sizes anyway, knowing it was a ripoff from a cost standpoint, because that is what I needed and I knew by reputation they would work well.

  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Art Mann View Post
    The original poster and others are assuming that.....

    The original poster wasn't assuming anything. That's why he (me) started this thread.

  7. #22
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    The price that Oneida is charging does not fit the Classic definition of "surcharge" that you proposed nor is Clearvue necessarily inferior in any way. Those are the only two options you suggested. I tried to point out that neither of those options is the probable reason for the difference in price, if it exists. I would suggest that when you used the word "surcharge" you meant instead "premium".

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by John K Jordan View Post
    From the manual:
    "Clear Vue Cyclones highly recommends the use of a professional,
    licensed electrician to complete the wiring and any electrical work
    associated with this installation. Significant damage to your system and/or
    bodily harm can result."


    The electrical part of the cyclone itself consists of a cable to the motor - the connections are well documented. Many people have enough experience to make the connections but with the least doubt hiring the electrician is certainly a good idea. A typical installation comprises a 220v contactor (relay) and some lower voltage control wiring. Based on questions here and elsewhere, even some with long experience with electrical wiring in general wiring are unsure of how to wire that up so again, some professional help is an extremely good idea.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    In case you are interested, this is what I wired up in my sound-reduction closet. I may tend to go a little overboard with electrical work. (I am not an electrician but I do have almost 1/2 century of experience, wired the entire shop myself including the underground service.)
    None of this is specific to the ClearVue. On the left is a sub panel for the air compressor and cyclone fed directly from the shop breaker box. On the right is a sub panel fed from a different circuit for room lights and a switch to disable the DC controller if needed. The middle section is the cyclone stuff - box with contactor, electrical disconnect switch, and a somewhat redundant twist-type receptacle to plug in a flex cable to the motor. (I wired it this way to make it easier to remove the motor assembly from the room if ever needed.)

    Attachment 410120

    I put the wireless remote receiver and bin sensor electronics/alarms in the main shop. All has worked flawlessly.

    Attachment 410121
    I like your work.

  9. #24
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    Me too, John.

  10. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Art Mann View Post
    The price that Oneida is charging does not fit the Classic definition of "surcharge" that you proposed nor is Clearvue necessarily inferior in any way. Those are the only two options you suggested. I tried to point out that neither of those options is the probable reason for the difference in price, if it exists. I would suggest that when you used the word "surcharge" you meant instead "premium".
    Are you talking to me? I never used the word "inferior," anywhere. And wether you think "surcharge" was the wrong term, I never claimed anything. I asked about these things as possibilities, given the price difference. I don't appreciate someone changing the meaning of what I wrote.
    Last edited by Allan Speers; 05-23-2019 at 12:58 AM.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perrin Fife View Post
    Just wondering is clearview cyclone UL certified? Isn't it a build it yourself thing which you should have properly inspected by local electrical and safety authoritys once install is complete?
    This morning I read an article on the Wood Magazine web site about UL certification. It was talking about hanging air filters and the fact they are not UL certified. A reader wrote that a local contractor would not install one in his (the readers) shop because it was illegal in his locality. Because of the expense involved, many items in our shops are not UL certified according to Wood Magazine. They checked their own shop and found this to be the case.
    “Learn what you can control and what you cannot..” Epictetus, 100 A.D.
    It costs nothing to be kind to others

  12. #27
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    Commercial cyclones are much higher in cost. An involute inlet adds cost, as does a helical baffle and a ramped inlet. The CV design is somewhat more complicated and I recall they worked on a metal cyclone but the cost was high in comparison to their current one. A metal cyclone may be tougher depending on the gauge used but separation depends on the design, not the material. Separation is more important, as is CFM in my world. Oneida does use a somewhat better motor with a heavier frame and shaft, and an aluminum rather than steel impeller. There should be a price difference due to materials but that doesn't automatically imply it will do a better job at clearing the air. That is beyond my pay grade to measure. I do know I bought a used Torit for $350 that is a far more expensive cyclone, with a Baldor motor and heavy impeller so it can be done if you add a vfd. Dave.

  13. #28
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    Does UL certified really mean anything anymore?

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Jobe View Post
    Does UL certified really mean anything anymore?
    It may if you have a fire claim... (speculation on my part)
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  15. #30
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    Excellent point, Jim. Never thought of that.

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