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Thread: Woodpecker sharpening jig vent

  1. #1
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    Woodpecker sharpening jig vent

    Sharpening probably belongs under the hand tool category, but the workshop 3000 is a power tool. Has anybody done a visual comparison of the now discontinued wide blade 3000 attachment with jig and the new Woodpecker sharpening jig? The amazing thing is that the WS is simpler and includes for 85$ what Woodpecker now wants 250$ for. And the rolling table to attach to the 3000 was included. I found that the WS jig was easier to set up than the venerable Veritas jig (Have and use both)and the blade is much more secure.
    Granted the Veritas and WP are made better and will last longer, But the WP is a copy of the old Workshop jig and costs a small fortune too.
    Last edited by Bernie Kopfer; 05-16-2019 at 6:06 PM.

  2. #2
    Considering the prices at WP it shouldn't be just a Woodpecker. It should be a titanium pecker.
    "If only those heathen atheists hadn't taken God, Jesus, and the Bible out of schools, God and Jesus could have thrown a Bible at the shooter."

  3. #3
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    Not sure I understand the need to ‘vent’ about this jig, which hasn’t even shipped yet? Either it fits one’s needs and/or budget, or it doesn’t. No need to vent about it if it doesn’t meet what your needs.

  4. #4
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    I guess your use determines a tool / jigs usefulness. I ordered the Woodpecker jig as am so frustrated with the Veritas jig as it is really difficult at times to securely hold some chisels. Yea it is expensive and I can’t really justify it for my hobby use. I also have the Workshop 3000 and it is great for many things but I still prefer sharpening stones for some tasks where I want the best edge possible.

  5. #5
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    It is truely unfortunate that the WS jig did not sell well. If they had stuck 25 more $ into it the quality would rival the WP.
    My complaint is that when an item is brought to market that is significantly and purposely overpriced it does not benefit the average consumer but definitely appeals to those who can afford or those who obtain ego satisfaction having something that is a recognized limited entity. If Veritas can mass market a excellent sharpening jig for $69 that has a minor ( but not insurmountable) annoying problem gripping and maintaining alignment how does WP justify three times the fee? The probable answer is they do not try to justify but let the "free" market dictate the money they will make. The average consumer (woodworker) be damned.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Bernie Kopfer View Post
    My complaint is that when an item is brought to market that is significantly and purposely overpriced it does not benefit the average consumer but definitely appeals to those who can afford or those who obtain ego satisfaction having something that is a recognized limited entity. If Veritas can mass market a excellent sharpening jig for $69 that has a minor ( but not insurmountable) annoying problem gripping and maintaining alignment how does WP justify three times the fee? The probable answer is they do not try to justify but let the "free" market dictate the money they will make. The average consumer (woodworker) be damned.
    Bernie, l don't disagree with anything you've said. But isn't this true of almost all luxury goods? I know it sounds funny, but in a way, WP is a luxury brand and Bridge City even more so. There are boutique makers that are far higher still. Or think of Lee Valley and Lie Neilsen. Steve Newman here will often remind us that his well-tuned $10 garage sale hand plane does just as nice work as those brands.

    An engineer I know bought his wife a louis vitton purse. I dont know much about such things, so I was pretty much floored when someone later told me it cost $2,000. I can't say here what I thought to myself at the time.

    Fred
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
    - Sir Edmund Burke

  7. #7
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    Also not disagreeing. People go into or operate a business for different reasons. All successful businesses will have to operate in a sustainable manner or go broke. Most businesses are in business to make money for owners, partners and / or stockholders. As for being benevolent to the average consumer, despite good marketing, this is rarely a primary goal. Woodworkers are not alone in their range of premium-priced offerings to choose from. From Harley-Davidson motorcycles, Rolex watches and Oakley sunglasses we can choose an array of high priced goods to make us happy ;-)
    She said “How many woodworking tools do you need?”
    I said “Why? Do you know someone who is selling some?”


  8. #8
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    Based on having used both the WS3000 system and its accessories and the Veritas hand sharpening jig and finally settling the Lie-Nielsen hand sharpening jig, I'd say the Worksharp and WP jig aren't the same thing. While the Worksharp system can, in fact, get chisels and plane blades fairly sharp, it really never reaches the same level of sharpness that hand sharpening does. The Veritas jig with the side holding accessory and the Lie-Nielsen jig both do a great job; Lie-Nielsen much more so than Veritas.

    I sharpened on the Worksharp using diamond plates made for the wheels and my chisels were still not as sharp as I can get them honing and polishing a micro-bevel using a side-holding jig for hand sharpening.

    None of this matters, though, as if any one of these work for you, use that method/system. The important thing is that your chisels and plane blades do what you want them to. The only way to accomplish that is pick a jig and method and practice it until you get good enough to get the result you want.

    As for the WP jig, I think it will work just fine for hand sharpening. Better than a cheaper hand sharpening jig? Who knows? No reason to find out if you already use something that works. If you don't have something that works, it may be a good investment. WP makes great stuff and the concept behind the sharpening jig is a sound one.

  9. #9
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    It will always come down to what you consider sharp-enough to be. In my case, working with hand plane and chisels much of the time, I aim for as sharp as I can get it. This means using waterstones to polish the edge. I doubt whether one can achieve the grit level of a higher-end water stone, such as 13K from a Sigma Ceramic stone.

    I do not believe that there is a difference in edge sharpness when honing freehand or a guide. I do both (all chisels and BD planes freehand on a hollow grind, and high angle BU plane blades with a guide). My guide of choice is the LN. It is a better Eclipse. My needs are very basic, however. If I was dependent on a guide for angles, etc, then I'd use the Veritas Mk2.

    I've written elsewhere that I consider the WP guide to be designed by an engineer, and one who has a very limited understanding of hand plane use. For example, the wide set wheels prevent adding camber, which is essential for bench planes. Further, for BU plane blades, the angle setter does not offer a high enough angle (it stops at 45 degrees - some need to go to 53 degrees or more). It's beautifully made, but badly thought through. Not recommended unless all you want to hone are chisels.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  10. #10
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    Actually Derek, I expect this jig was designed precisely for a specific market-the woodworker who is largely machine-tool focused and probably is limited to not much more than a smoothing plane, a block plane, and a handful of chisels. Look back to Chris Schwarz’s blog posts of Sharpen This to see him describe some of his former co-workers as just this type of woodworker. They have no desire to learn to sharpen freehand and no need for heavy cambers and high angles, although it would still be possible to set a high angle on the jig without using the angle setter.

    Speaking of the angle setter, that’s a $100 option which gets the complete package to $250. BTW, I’m not aware of anyone else making an angle setter for a side-mount jig? The angle setter looks well engineered and made, but it certainly is something that can be user-made out of scraps. LN even provides a nice set of plans free to build a fancy one. Without the angle setter the WP jig and included bevel gauge at $150 is about the same price as the LN jig + buying a bevel gauge. The LN jig is arguably a better jig (love mine) and offers more flexibility with the optional jaws, but I suspect the WP jig will serve a segment of hybrid woodworkers well.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frederick Skelly View Post
    Bernie, l don't disagree with anything you've said. But isn't this true of almost all luxury goods? I know it sounds funny, but in a way, WP is a luxury brand and Bridge City even more so. There are boutique makers that are far higher still. Or think of Lee Valley and Lie Neilsen. Steve Newman here will often remind us that his well-tuned $10 garage sale hand plane does just as nice work as those brands.

    An engineer I know bought his wife a louis vitton purse. I dont know much about such things, so I was pretty much floored when someone later told me it cost $2,000. I can't say here what I thought to myself at the time.

    Fred
    If that frightens you then it would be advisable to steer very clear of Hermès.

    In an arbitrary way to make something 50% better it increases the cost by 250%. The inputs are higher, materials, cost of development, cost of process and cost of advertising.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Holcombe View Post
    If that frightens you then it would be advisable to steer very clear of Hermès.

    In an arbitrary way to make something 50% better it increases the cost by 250%. The inputs are higher, materials, cost of development, cost of process and cost of advertising.
    No thanks Brian. I'll leave that to better-healed folks.
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
    - Sir Edmund Burke

  13. #13
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    "Speaking of the angle setter, that’s a $100 option which gets the complete package to $250. BTW, I’m not aware of anyone else making an angle setter for a side-mount jig? The angle setter looks well engineered and made, but it certainly is something that can be user-made out of scraps. LN even provides a nice set of plans free to build a fancy one. Without the angle setter the WP jig and included bevel gauge at $150 is about the same price as the LN jig + buying a bevel gauge. The LN jig is arguably a better jig (love mine) and offers more flexibility with the optional jaws, but I suspect the WP jig will serve a segment of hybrid woodworkers well.[/QUOTE]

    This was exactly why I compared the $$$ WP jig system to the WS sharpening jig system that came with the wide blade attachment for the 3000. The angle setter had a built in slot to hold the jig solidly in place and any angle could be easily set. And it takes 20 seconds to set a microbevel. The jig could be used with any stone not just the WS3000 machine. Much of the $85 cost was probably in the aluminum flat table attachment that fit on the 3000 for the jig or any other jig to roll on. Woodcraft still has a product writeup about the jig. As I said earlier the quality is not great but the cost and convenience are wonderful.

  14. #14
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    The angle setting guide isn't really needed as that is something anyone should be able to make with a little experimentation with the jig. I have the Lie-Nielsen jig and just made an angle setting guide. Then you can sharpen to any angle you choose to include in the home-made angle setting guide.

    As for camber, I saw that comment somewhere else before, but don't understand why a camber could be put on a plane blade if needed. The jig's wheels can be mounted inside as well as outside and a camber suitable for most people's needs could be put on a blade merely by shifting weight from hand to had during sharpening to get a slight curve. For me, that is all that is needed. However, I don't need the WP jig because I own the Lie-Nielsen. Just saying, it seems that the WP jig is probably just as good, just a little more expensive.

    In the end, using the same method and jig over and over is the only way I know to improve sharpening skills. Pick a method. Stick with that method.

  15. #15
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    I have a lot of LN planes and prefer them over the few Veritas and Stanley’s I own, but I don’t understand comparing the price of the Woodpeckers jig to the LN. If, like me, you have a variety of LN planes, you’ll need the optional jaws to hone the blades. You’ll also need the optional jaws to hone their chisels. Add it up and you’re out $360 and, per their website, you won’t be able to use the jaws with any other manufacturer’s blades. Woodpecker’s jig accommodates all manufacturer’s blades. Sure it has some limitations (like the inability to hone skewed blades), but price wise it’s a much better deal than the LN jig. I already have the Veritas Mk2 (talk about issues!), so I’m not about to invest in another sharpening jig, but I wanted to point out something that everyone seems to be overlooking when comparing the LN and Woodpeckers jigs.

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