advice needed - dovetailer

[David Zaret]

we're considering adding a (new) dovetailer to the shop. we're looking at the Omec 650A, and the Dodds SE1-AFA. we don't do a lot of production work - we make "dozens" of drawers a year, not hundreds, and it's a small two-man shop... so, with that in mind, two questions:

1) between the two models listed above, is there a clear choice? both are similarly priced.

2) given that we are low production, can we get away with a manual machine instead of an automatic? the Omec 650M is ~$10k less than the A, and we're just wondering if relying on manual control leads to lower quality cuts, or any other factors we should consider.

we're not opposed to buying the automatic, but if manual provides comparable quality, given our volume, we could potentially save a lot of money.

thanks for any advice and guidance.

-- dz

[Tom M King]

If you're only making that many, why don't you just buy the drawer parts premade? Not really suggesting-just curious.

[David Zaret]

tom, fair and appropriate question. we have outsourced drawers for a number of years, and make some of our own... the bottom line is that we really like to control the quality, typically do very high end jobs, and ... want to keep improving the capabilities of our shop. so we're in the market for a machine. last year i bought drawers for three kitchens, made them for one, and ... enjoy controlling the quality, wood selection, etc.

--- dz

[Tom M King]

Fair enough. When I was building new, spec houses, also high end, I always made the drawers with the same old router jig that I bought in the early '70's. It even has wing nuts that hold the boards in place. I remember the last new house I built, in 2007, had 48 dovetailed drawers. My two helpers, and I made all the parts for those drawers before lunch one day. The jig was clamped to the deck railing outside, and dust control was one of the helpers with an electric leaf blower, blowing the chips out in the yard. The other helper was handing me parts, and keeping them organized. As far as I remember, they were all close to perfect.

I did it like that for over 30 years, but only one day a year. I never even saw the benefit of buying a better jig, with no more use than that. I did have a dedicated router just for that job, like many others. The router is a D-handle Rockwell, and still runs like a new one, since that's all it ever got used for.

Also, I think those were the only half-blind dovetails I ever did. edited to add: except for some handmade replacement parts in a mid 18th Century sideboard.

[David Zaret]

i get it... have a jig... have used it for years... but we like good machines, and the speed and efficiency that comes with them. arguably most of my shop i "don't need" to make the things i make, but i enjoy using the equipment, and it makes me a better woodworker. so.... time for a dovetailer!

-- dz

[Steve Jenkins]

I picked an Extrema dovetailer a few years ago. It’s manual with pneumatic clamping. At the time it sold for about 5 grand and I got it for $500. It works great.

[David Kumm]

The smaller Dodds was always made by Omec and put on a Dodds stand. I believe that is still the case. I have a manual OMEC with pneumatic clamps. For dozens of drawers I think the manual is more than enough, providing you use similar dovetail spacing or keep good records of the measurements needed when you change over among the four choices. I modified mine some to make the markings more clear but ended up using one size 95% of the time. I like 9mm BB for bottoms rather than 6mm so I picked the size that would hide that thickness. Dave

[David Zaret]

The smaller Dodds was always made by Omec and put on a Dodds stand. I believe that is still the case. I have a manual OMEC with pneumatic clamps. For dozens of drawers I think the manual is more than enough, providing you use similar dovetail spacing or keep good records of the measurements needed when you change over among the four choices. I modified mine some to make the markings more clear but ended up using one size 95% of the time. I like 9mm BB for bottoms rather than 6mm so I picked the size that would hide that thickness. Dave

david thank you for this. very helpful. i'll talk to jim and we may target the manual model and put the $10k extra toward another machine.

--- dz

[David Kumm]

Those machines use a single flute bit. After you do a couple of drawers you learn how to enter and exit the cut to avoid tear out. I assume the CNC is programmed to do the same but not hard to figure out. Dave

[James Biddle]

David, what's involved in changing your manual Omec from one height drawer box to another? Or thickness? Right now, we may have 7 or 8 different heights in a kitchen and some kitchens may be different thicknesses from others (solid wood vs baltic birch). My goal is to eliminate or drastically reduce the amount of setup time. If we can do that at the manual level of machine, fine. But I don't want to invest in a fussy dovetailer to replace a fussy dovetail jig.

[David Kumm]

On the manual machine, the height increments depend on the dovetail used. Because you are referencing all four sides at once, two each on top and bottom, you need to maintain the increments if you change height. I only use one thickness so I haven't played with that. I think the manual machine is a step between jigs and full production work. If you are changing the size and spacing, thickness, and height all the time, I wonder if the manual machine is what you want. I'm also not sure there is much money to be made doing " one off " dovetails. When I point out dovetails to her I get the same look that i give her when she is talking about someone's grandchildren I'll never meet. Dave

[David Zaret]

On the manual machine, the height increments depend on the dovetail used. Because you are referencing all four sides at once, two each on top and bottom, you need to maintain the increments if you change height. I only use one thickness so I haven't played with that. I think the manual machine is a step between jigs and full production work. If you are changing the size and spacing, thickness, and height all the time, I wonder if the manual machine is what you want. I'm also not sure there is much money to be made doing " one off " dovetails. When I point out dovetails to her I get the same look that i give her when she is talking about someone's grandchildren I'll never meet. Dave

i won't speak for jim, but i always do 5/8" drawers, and don't plan on modifying the pin sizing and spacing. ever. i could see building a blanket chest or two and dovetailing the sides, but the steady-state case will be 5/8" sides and fixed pin spacing. unless i'm misreading your comment, in that case, the variable heights aren't a big deal...

[David Kumm]

The heights just need to maintain the tail and pin increment.

On a side note, I got an email from Martin Wasner ( not allowed here- too bad as he had good info ) and he felt the auto machine was the way to go. It is far easier to set up and allows for growth more so than the manual one. Just to muddy your water. Dave

[roger wiegand]

For only a few dozen drawers spread out over a year I'd hand cut them, unless they are a standard size, in which case I'd set up a fixed router jig. I have a Leigh jig that works quite nicely and makes decent looking joints, but the setup fussing and time is such that unless I'm doing more than 3-4 identical drawers at once it's faster and easier to cut them by hand. I don't know how much these machines cost, but the return on capital numbers wouldn't be favorable if they are expensive and you don't use them that much compared to a couple person-days of labor. I suppose it all depends on what else you do with the saved time.