Martin T-17 rebuild

[Patrick Kane]

Thought it would be better to post here rather than start a new thread. A few questions for the guys who have worked on T-17s. One, did all saws come standard with the sliding table? How does the beam attach to the saw chasis? The one im looking at does not have the sliding table attached to the saw, but im assuming its nearby in the same storage facility. Two, how difficult is it to work on these machines? Ive redone several unisaws from the ground up and a PM72, which i assume are child's play compared to this machine. Im up for a challenge, but i also dont want to get myself into a fight that is far beyond my abilities. Are parts still available, or are you up the creek without a paddle if you need something?

[Mark Hennebury]

Below is the link to my rebuild; judge for yourself if its something that you want to take on.
You will see the beam attaches with two clamp brackets that are bolted to the base.
I don't think that you will find many parts available, but you would have to check for specific parts with the manufacturer.

https://forum.canadianwoodworking.co...-t17-breakdown

Thought it would be better to post here rather than start a new thread. A few questions for the guys who have worked on T-17s. One, did all saws come standard with the sliding table? How does the beam attach to the saw chasis? The one im looking at does not have the sliding table attached to the saw, but im assuming its nearby in the same storage facility. Two, how difficult is it to work on these machines? Ive redone several unisaws from the ground up and a PM72, which i assume are child's play compared to this machine. Im up for a challenge, but i also dont want to get myself into a fight that is far beyond my abilities. Are parts still available, or are you up the creek without a paddle if you need something?

[Brian Holcombe]

I haven't rebuilt one, but I can say from building the maka that it's very valuable to get as complete a machine as possible and one that's in as best a shape as possible. I work under the assumption that missing parts will need to be fabricated and if you're not doing that in-house it becomes hugely expensive quickly.

[Joe Calhoon]

Brian has it, missing parts can be a problem. Especially cast parts. My T17 is pretty complete except for the miter gauge and some parts missing off the fence stops. Mine came with the long fence Where it sits in the shop that fence is too big and not needed so I adapted a short felder fence to it.
a previous owner had a extended arbor made and it is a butcher job. Luckily Darcy had his out and his machinist is copying it. Not much is available from the factory on these.

T 17 was available without a sliding table but all were drilled to accept the brackets it mounts to.

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My similar by design T23 shaper was missing a cast part off the fence - clamp assembly. The dimensions are critical for the angle marks to be accurate. A friend had his machinist make a replacement part out of aluminum. Once you start something like this you have to keep going and sometimes it’s not easy or inexpensive!

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[Darcy Warner]

Top on.

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Here are the main issues of any rebuild:

Broken parts (not really an issue for me anymore)
Missing parts (martin has some, others you better know where to call to find them)
Had the wrong parts/bolts/nuts, etc. (Not easy to figure out until you start putting it back together)
Forklift or gantry crane is a must.
It can get frustrating and Joe is right, once you get in too deep sometimes the only way out is throwing money at the problem.

[Patrick Kane]

Hmm, that’s a shame. Is this saw worth owning without the sliding table? I’m considering selling the PM72 I just redid to get the Martin. To what end? I have no idea! From what you all are saying, this will be a monster PITA. I have a Felder KF700, so I don’t really need two table saws or two sliders.

One other question. What are the dimensions of the base chassis? I would need to get it through a 33” door.

I need to look into the paint you used, Darcy. Cleaning my gun and equipment of the oil based enamel was god awful.

[Darcy Warner]

Hmm, that’s a shame. Is this saw worth owning without the sliding table? I’m considering selling the PM72 I just redid to get the Martin. To what end? I have no idea! From what you all are saying, this will be a monster PITA. I have a Felder KF700, so I don’t really need two table saws or two sliders.

One other question. What are the dimensions of the base chassis? I would need to get it through a 33” door.

I need to look into the paint you used, Darcy. Cleaning my gun and equipment of the oil based enamel was god awful.

Without a sliding table, it's kind of just another well built industrial cabinet saw of the time. I think there are better, cheaper, easier options out there for that kind of saw.
Whitney 77/177 tanny XJ, oliver 88s, etc. Much easier to rebuild one of those or find a nice one for a reasonable cost.

The martin wouldn't fit through a 33" door, well maybe but not by much.

I think I have 8 or 10 TS. My two favorites are a 495 greenlee and a whitney 77, easy saws to adjust and use.

A 2k pound saw will make a pm72 look like a portable saw.

[Patrick Kane]

Yes, I could have had a few cheap Whitney’s the last 12 months, but I’ve seen specs on the saw and the base is too wide. Can’t get it through the door. Same for most of the tannewitz models, I think. There was a type U for sale here that was $200ish. I know that’s the least desirable of tannewitz’ offerings, but you are right about the price being right. But, my one issue with the older American saws are dust collection, riving knife, and style. That tannewitz did nothing for me from an aesthetic point of few. It was just a lump of iron. I nearly had a Wadkin PKF last year for $300. Shop closing down in Queens and I had first dibs on it. Then, I found out the owner sold it out from underneath me to another guy. Oddly enough I saw the machine on a forum not too long ago. Another hobbyist got it. That wadkin would have checked all the boxes. Super cheap unlike the PK, excellent style, and most of the conveniences of modern safety equipment. This T17 had me thinking similar thoughts. It’s the one in jersey for $450. It may be only a parts machine, but I was thinking about gambling.

The PM72 is a fine saw for what I do. It’s not like I’m running machines on two shifts a day, but I’ve stalled the 5hp motor many times now while ripping 8/4. The bevel and height adjustments are fine, but I want effortless buttery movements. The felder is actually the best I’ve ever experienced. The height adjustment is sublime on that machine. The 72 is a heavy enough machine with the optional extended wing, but it lacks a lot of the refinement and extraordinary care towards detail and refinement. The 72 is the Sherman, where as the PK or T17 strike me as more of the Jagdpanther.

I read a couple pages of mark’s experience and this sounds like a tiger I don’t want to wrestle with. Comprising a spring that can kill you? Assembling components to a top and then inverting the top onto the base? A lot of this stuff sounds beyond my abilities. Still, I do like seeing new and different machines.

[Darcy Warner]

Greenlee 495 was ahead of it's time with DC.

The Oliver saws had good DC, riving knife, over blade guard, etc. I have a few really nice complete ones, 88s and a 270. I really like the 270.

Another great saw is the Moak Monotrol. Ugly, but a wonderful table saw.

[Joe Calhoon]

Patrick, have you inspected the saw? It might not need much work. I spent a couple days, cleaning and adjusting mine and could probably use it for several years without doing anything. It looks rough and I will restore it but it functions fine. The homemade extended shaft is hacked as it goes out in length but single blades run true.
I think the ballbearing fence and micro adjustment is one of the unique features of these.

[Patrick Kane]

Have not, its 6 hours away. Im assuming its semi-rough, because its in some junkyard of sorts. The guy said they forked it outside for photos, but the riving knife looks bent. I know Darcy has seen rougher, but i dont think this is plug n play.

[Darcy Warner]

Have not, its 6 hours away. Im assuming its semi-rough, because its in some junkyard of sorts. The guy said they forked it outside for photos, but the riving knife looks bent. I know Darcy has seen rougher, but i dont think this is plug n play.

I just looked that up. That's a parts machine imo.

[Brian Holcombe]

That'll be a labor of love, no doubt.

Couple thoughts come to mind: Will the table clean up? If not do you have access to someone who runs a metal planer? Second though is that people don't usually junk these type of machines so I'd be curious to know if it runs and if it doesn't run I'd want to know if any major parts are damaged and preventing it from turning over.

If there isn't something really wrecked about it, if they had the sliding table assembly and if I had a recent tetanus shot I might be tempted to take that mess home, but as Darcy mentions that looks like a parts machine to me as well.

Heavy parts aren't a big deal if you have space and hydraulic lift or chain hoist. It's a PITA for me at my current shop, but when I used to break down heavy things at the machine shop with a hydraulic lift and cherry picker it was no trouble. We broke down motors as large as 12 cylinder diesels with mainly just a heavy duty cherry picker.

Patience and careful planning go a long ways with heavy things.

[David Kumm]

I'd hold out for a short stroke slider. In the fixed saw world you can get a Whitney, Greenlee, Yates, Oliver etc that is plug and play for 750-1500. I have my short stroke set up right now with a 45 and the long slider with the other 45 and a bunch of stops for window trim. A short and long handle pretty much everything you need to cut. Dave

[Patrick Kane]

That'll be a labor of love, no doubt.

Couple thoughts come to mind: Will the table clean up? If not do you have access to someone who runs a metal planer? Second though is that people don't usually junk these type of machines so I'd be curious to know if it runs and if it doesn't run I'd want to know if any major parts are damaged and preventing it from turning over.

If there isn't something really wrecked about it, if they had the sliding table assembly and if I had a recent tetanus shot I might be tempted to take that mess home, but as Darcy mentions that looks like a parts machine to me as well.

Heavy parts aren't a big deal if you have space and hydraulic lift or chain hoist. It's a PITA for me at my current shop, but when I used to break down heavy things at the machine shop with a hydraulic lift and cherry picker it was no trouble. We broke down motors as large as 12 cylinder diesels with mainly just a heavy duty cherry picker.

Patience and careful planning go a long ways with heavy things.

Haha you and i think alike, which might not be a good thing for you. I just hate to see tools like that rust away. How many T-17s are in this country, do you think? Its a machine i see about as frequently as a wadkin PK, so i know there arent many. If it was closer, i would have made the mistake of buying it already. The guy would probably take $300, and id figure the rest out from there. Moving it to my place would cost me several hundred, and i just dont know if i want to gamble $800 on what looks to be issue after issue. I still might if he finds the sliding table assembly and its complete.

Havent needed the services of a planer yet, but im sure one exists here locally. Pittsburgh is full of inexpensive machinists with enormous tools leftover from the good ol' days.