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Thread: A Walnut Logs to Mill

  1. #1
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    A Walnut Logs to Mill

    An arborist friend asked if I was interested in some small walnut trees he is taking down. For a few hours of my time being his man on the ground I got 2 really nice and 2 so-so logs.








    One of the logs is full of nails and screws, so I bought a metal detector. We'll see how good it is.

    Now if it ever stops raining I may get them milled.

    There is at least one more tree to take down, definitely the largest and likely the nicest.

    John

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    That looks like a solid return on your few hours of effort John. It's good to have arborists as friends!

  3. #3
    Nice find sir!!! There has to be something different in the soil where ever that is. A walnut tree that diameter would be less than half that height here. I would be lucky to get two good logs out of a tree that thick, and almost half of one of them would be stump. I honestly didn't know walnut trees could get that tall, never seen it until now.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Siebert View Post
    Nice find sir!!! There has to be something different in the soil where ever that is. A walnut tree that diameter would be less than half that height here. I would be lucky to get two good logs out of a tree that thick, and almost half of one of them would be stump. I honestly didn't know walnut trees could get that tall, never seen it until now.

    Martin, in the NE where I live black walnut trees typically grow to 60' or more. I only took two logs from each trunk, but probably should have cut them longer on the second tree because there was still about 12" of heartwood on what I left. So on the last and largest tree I will start cutting firewood rounds from the narrow end of the trunk until the heartwood gets to about 12" and then everything from there as logs. I'm guessing I'll get at least 24'.

    At the moment I use a chainsaw mill to mill lumber, but Tony above just built a bandsaw mill and now I'm having bandsaw mill lust after looking at some videos of how fast they cut. What I'd really like to have is a Swingmill but I don't mill enough lumber to justify one. Anyone have any experience with Woodland Mills? They are decidedly lower cost than any other BS mill I've looked at yet appear to be very well thought out.

    John

  5. #5
    I've never used a Woodland Mill. I have a Hudson Oscar Pro 336 and I really like it. It has power up and down, but the rest is manual. I always tell anyone thinking about getting a mill to do it somehow. There is zero chance you will ever regret having one.
    I have never even seen a walnut tree around here taller than 30 feet....I lucked onto a monster that was five feet across about a year ago. One of the biggest oldest I have ever seen and it was barely 30 feet tall. I made lumber out of the limbs. It's funny, walnut typically has black streaks in it here and the older stuff will have a reddish hue to it too. They say the streaks are due to minerals in the soil, but I don't know.

  6. #6
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    That's a very nice mill, Martin, but way more than I'm willing to spend. I'd have to go into the milling business to justify it and I'd rather be building than milling, although milling is addictive to be sure.

    Here's a link to some info. on black walnut trees. https://www.arborday.org/trees/treeg...cfm?ItemID=934 Are you sure the walnut trees around you are black walnut and not some other species? 60 ft is very common where I live.

    John

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by John TenEyck View Post
    That's a very nice mill, Martin, but way more than I'm willing to spend. I'd have to go into the milling business to justify it and I'd rather be building than milling, although milling is addictive to be sure.

    Here's a link to some info. on black walnut trees. https://www.arborday.org/trees/treeg...cfm?ItemID=934 Are you sure the walnut trees around you are black walnut and not some other species? 60 ft is very common where I live.

    John
    It is a lot of money, but when you think about how much rough cut lumber costs and also just in case you are in need of more "friends"......they come out of no where when you have a sawmill!!! I don't really run it as a business to make a profit, but it does keep me fed with usable lumber and I always have a big pile of boards to sell to folks I know.
    As far as the trees go, yeah, they are black walnut...I don't know why, but they sure don't seem to get very tall here. They seem to grow pretty good here, but there really isn't a lot of them, kinda rare actually. I don't know if English walnut wont grow here, but I have never heard or seen one.
    As to the mill, the best thing I can say is get the biggest best one you possibly can or you will be sorry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Siebert View Post
    I've never used a Woodland Mill. I have a Hudson Oscar Pro 336 and I really like it. It has power up and down, but the rest is manual. I always tell anyone thinking about getting a mill to do it somehow. There is zero chance you will ever regret having one.
    I have never even seen a walnut tree around here taller than 30 feet....I lucked onto a monster that was five feet across about a year ago. One of the biggest oldest I have ever seen and it was barely 30 feet tall. I made lumber out of the limbs. It's funny, walnut typically has black streaks in it here and the older stuff will have a reddish hue to it too. They say the streaks are due to minerals in the soil, but I don't know.
    Martin, I've been looking at the Hudson Mills. How does the blade tension on yours work? I don't see a spring or hydraulic tensioner on any of their mills, nor on some other company's either. I don't see how the blade tension would remain constant, or even close to constant, if the temperature of the blade or frame changed very much. What's your experience been with regards to tensioning and consistency of cut between blade changes? Thanks.

    Anyone else who wants to educate me on how their unit tensions the blade, feel free to do so. I'm getting more serious about buying a bandsaw mill and want to make a good choice. I've pretty much settled on a unit from 30 - 36" with at least 28" between the guides. One of the things I want to do is QS so guides that won't open nearly as wide as the max. log capacity aren't going to allow me to do that unless I'm missing something.

    John

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by John TenEyck View Post
    Martin, I've been looking at the Hudson Mills. How does the blade tension on yours work? I don't see a spring or hydraulic tensioner on any of their mills, nor on some other company's either. I don't see how the blade tension would remain constant, or even close to constant, if the temperature of the blade or frame changed very much. What's your experience been with regards to tensioning and consistency of cut between blade changes? Thanks.

    Anyone else who wants to educate me on how their unit tensions the blade, feel free to do so. I'm getting more serious about buying a bandsaw mill and want to make a good choice. I've pretty much settled on a unit from 30 - 36" with at least 28" between the guides. One of the things I want to do is QS so guides that won't open nearly as wide as the max. log capacity aren't going to allow me to do that unless I'm missing something.

    John
    I am sorry for the delay sir...I just got in and saw your post. The Hudson I have has a pretty big bolt that pulls the inboard wheel to tighten the blade tension. You tighten/adjust it so that the blade has {I gotta double check this figure} I want to say like around an inch or so of deflection in the middle. There is no spring or hydraulic unit, it is a fixed tension type set up very similar to a vertical bandsaw. It has a liquid drip tank that cools and prevents buildup of sap, etc. on the blade as you cut. I haven't had any trouble with the blade staying well adjusted and cutting nice and straight as long as it is reasonably sharp. If you hit a nail and dull the blade then it wont want to track thru the log properly and it will need to be changed.
    I will be glad to post photos of the adjustment set up on mine if you can wait until tomorrow. It also has pretty substantial blade guides that you can set to keep the blade tracking straight. You set them with a little play for general sawing, but you can also set them rubbing with no play if you know you have a very hard or figured piece of wood to mill. Honestly, I have not had to do that and I have cut quite a bit of hickory that was not green and also white oak with no problem and set for normal cutting. One other thing, and I believe this is with all band mill type saw mills, you cant cut too many hard logs before you really need to change the blade for a fresh sharp one. Wood like pine or poplar is no problem, but I can get about 7-8 average size logs of white oak or locust and it needs sharpened. Same with hard rock maple, but we don't have any of that around here.

    Edit: I guess I kind of left out an important point...the wheels do have rubber "tires" which are again, very similar to the set up on a vertical band saw. When you tension the blade with the adjuster bolt it kind of sets it to the tires and between that and the drip coolant the blade doesn't change tension very much at all because it just doesn't get too hot. The thing that's weird to me is how I can do all my cuts right down the log and it doesn't even try to jam or lock up on the blade. I really thought I would have to make a cut and remove the board to make the next one, but no.
    Last edited by Martin Siebert; 06-04-2019 at 9:40 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Siebert View Post
    ...The thing that's weird to me is how I can do all my cuts right down the log and it doesn't even try to jam or lock up on the blade. I really thought I would have to make a cut and remove the board to make the next one, but no.
    One reason to remove each board is to look at the wood for black streaks, a sign of embedded steel. Sometimes the streaks will show up on the board or so above where the metal is. I hate when I run a blade through a screwdriver or big nail. (Found a railroad spike in one walnut tree.)

  11. Quote Originally Posted by John K Jordan View Post
    One reason to remove each board is to look at the wood for black streaks, a sign of embedded steel. Sometimes the streaks will show up on the board or so above where the metal is. I hate when I run a blade through a screwdriver or big nail. (Found a railroad spike in one walnut tree.)
    Yes sir, and I have to admit, I usually just remove them one at a time anyway...if for nothing else just to see if I am getting the best possible cut for figure. I normally sweep all my logs with a pretty decent metal detector and it doesn't miss much. If it's a big log I will cut a few boards and sweep it again to be sure I went deep enough. It is handy to cut structural lumber and just leave it all together, flip the whole stack and keep cutting though. It just seems like to me that the blade would seize with all that lumber laying on top of the cut, but it don't even strain.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Siebert View Post
    It just seems like to me that the blade would seize with all that lumber laying on top of the cut, but it don't even strain.
    I figured if the blade had trouble with a stack of boards on top it would also have trouble cutting down the center of a log, at least near the far end. But cutting 1" or 10" down doesn't seem any different on my Woodmizer.

    JKJ

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    Thanks very much for your detailed response, Martin; very much appreciated. I talked with Hudson today. Of course sales guys almost never know how things really work, but I think I confirmed that their tensioning mechanism uses no spring elements, as you said. You mentioned the blade lube system to keep the blade cool so it won't expand, but there is nothing to prevent the frame from changing dimension when the sun hits it or the ambient temp. goes up/down. And steel moves a lot more than you might first think, certainly more than the stretch required to take a blade from the correct tension to either way too high or too low. Nevertheless, somehow it all seems to work, but I'd much prefer to have a spring loaded system.

    One more question if I might, Martin. How do you find the frame on the Hudson as far as turning the log to create a cant? The cross beams are just angle iron vs. the box beams on many other mills.

    John

  14. Quote Originally Posted by John TenEyck View Post
    Thanks very much for your detailed response, Martin; very much appreciated. I talked with Hudson today. Of course sales guys almost never know how things really work, but I think I confirmed that their tensioning mechanism uses no spring elements, as you said. You mentioned the blade lube system to keep the blade cool so it won't expand, but there is nothing to prevent the frame from changing dimension when the sun hits it or the ambient temp. goes up/down. And steel moves a lot more than you might first think, certainly more than the stretch required to take a blade from the correct tension to either way too high or too low. Nevertheless, somehow it all seems to work, but I'd much prefer to have a spring loaded system.

    One more question if I might, Martin. How do you find the frame on the Hudson as far as turning the log to create a cant? The cross beams are just angle iron vs. the box beams on many other mills.

    John
    Yeah, so I have some trouble if I have a good size log and I am by myself sometimes. The log wants to pivot left to right on the track when it should be turning. This is not an issue if you have a helper...I often do not and my son is only 12 so he tries, but he just don't have the weight to stand his ground. And i am not saying that box tubing will cure this issue either, it probably wont.
    The simple solution I came up with was to cut some square beams of wood, like 8"square and about 10" to a foot long and I cut a 45 degree angle on the one end and leave the other 90 degrees. This can be used to jam in between the side of the track and the log/cant to stop that swing back and forth when you are alone and trying to spin it with a cant hook.
    Where the angle iron can get to be aggravating is when for some reason you want to adjust where in the track the log is, like to move it closer or further from one end or the other...the top of the angle iron that the log is sitting on kind of sinks into the bark a little and don't want to let the log move. The good thing is that I have only had to move it up like that once or twice and I really cant even remember why, so it's not like something that has to be done every time. If I remember right I think the log I was working on got below where the upright bar is that sets it at 90 on the track, so I had to joggle the log towards the actual saw and frame so it could engage. The point being that while you don't have to do this often it would definitely move easier forward and back over box tubing. All that said, i would not trade the Hudson for a machine just because it has box tubing over angle steel. You got to remember too that the top of that angle iron is what the wheels ride on, the actual track itself and as such it cant go crooked or jump off. I've probably got you good and confused now...just keep on asking, I will be more than happy to answer whatever questions you have. The main question, "do I get one or not???", that one is simple...you gotta have a band mill, period end of story!!!!

    Edit: I have been so busy this spring that I haven't even cut any logs yet. I just kind of haven't been thinking about the mill like I want to. I have never had a minutes trouble with the blade varying tension or the frame causing some sort of variance in the dimension of milled lumber. I totally get what you are saying, and it seems like there is enough metal that the temperature change/expansion/contraction thing should cause problems, but I can assure you it has not with mine. A few posts ago I said I thought the blade tension was like an inch of deflection and that's about right. I remember now thinking about it that when the blade is not quite tight enough you will see it kind of vibrate up and down while running under no load. That is telling you it needs a little more tension. When you give it a tweak and it calms down and runs straight with almost no jumping it is good.
    The drive vee belt is just the opposite, it runs perfect under no load and it will always jump around a little when you are cutting and the blade is loaded. I ask the factory about that and was told that is normal. Been working perfect ever since.
    Last edited by Martin Siebert; 06-05-2019 at 8:30 PM.

  15. #15
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    Thanks once again for all your helpful comments, Martin.

    Am I going to get a mill? Yes! Unless my wife threatens divorce. So far she hasn't.

    To you and anyone else who cares to offer an opinion. I have not found any used machines in the LT15, Woodland HM-130, Hudson HFE-30 range for 1000 miles around me. It's hard to imagine these machines don't get sold fairly regularly as people get older, circumstances change, etc. I'd prefer to buy a used machine but if I have to wait for a year to find one then I'll buy a new one. What's your take on this? Am I not looking in the right places or are used machines just really rare? In the same regard, I'm guessing used machines hold their value really well. If so, and I had to pay 75% of the cost of a new machine to get a used one then I'll just buy new, now. What's your experience with all this?

    John

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