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Thread: Re : "I do not have permission to view photos"

  1. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Bartley View Post
    It's such a small sum of money it's funny that it's an issue. Peter, with all due respect, if you enjoy SMC just mail it in and you can continue participating, it's really that simple. Make something nice for your wife and tell her you learned it here!
    You'll always catch more Bees with honey than vinegar!
    Oh, I forgot about the exchange rate. Peter's in (slightly higher in) Canada. Re cash, he'd have to sneak in to the Royal Bank branch and they charge you for the conversion as well, maybe there's a minimum. An International Money Order there for US$6 (drawn on a US bank) might be cheaper.

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Bartley View Post
    It's such a small sum of money it's funny that it's an issue. Peter, with all due respect, if you enjoy SMC just mail it in and you can continue participating, it's really that simple. Make something nice for your wife and tell her you learned it here!
    You'll always catch more Bees with honey than vinegar!
    Yup a glass of wine in a restaurant costs more but marital discord is not priceless. It isn't the amount, it's the principle. Other than a small pile of US change in the piggy bank I don't have any US to mail. All our accounts are joint and the boss is in them all so no hiding any transactions. The reasons might sound piddly but each person has to decide for themselves.

  3. #18
    Woodworking is very visual, so a WW forum is greatly diminished without pictures.

    And forums, like any social media, have a network effect: the more users the more attractive they are - and vice versa. Once its a pay system, you risk loosing a big chunk of current users and choke off the stream of new users making it less attractive even for those who do pay. I don't see how a pay system will succeed given all the alternatives these days. Advertising is the key to social media; can't think of any pay sites.

    Best of luck anyways.


    P.S. On your Donate page your "Order" button should be bigger and colored, too easy to miss. Might help a little.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,386
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Christensen View Post
    I've been a member for a couple years and don't dispute the value of the forum or the reasons for needing to charge a small fee to keep the place running. However every week or two SWMBO busts my chops about the amount of time I spend on the forums. If she found out I was paying even a small amount to be able to read a forum my days on them would be numbered . I've liked it here but I will be one of the ones that fades away.
    All the best
    Pete
    LOL. I feel you are taking that SWMBO thing way too seriously. $6, right?

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lewiston, Idaho
    Posts
    26,931
    Too many people don't know the difference between "excuses" and "reasons". Reasons have to be reasonable,excuses not so much.
    Ken

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    NW Indiana
    Posts
    2,269
    I feel sorry for someone if their wife busts their chops for reading a forum for a few minutes or spending a small amount of money.

    It just sounds petty to me. Been married almost 50 years now and never let something this small be a source of a disagreement. There are too many important things to discuss. You do not bust your spouse's chops ever.

    Maybe worst excuse ever for leaving a forum.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    3,857
    Quote Originally Posted by John Helles View Post
    And forums, like any social media, have a network effect: the more users the more attractive they are - and vice versa. Once its a pay system, you risk loosing a big chunk of current users and choke off the stream of new users making it less attractive even for those who do pay. I don't see how a pay system will succeed given all the alternatives these days. Advertising is the key to social media; can't think of any pay sites.
    Exactly. Forums with few posts tend to wither and die. A subscription fee will significantly decrease the number of posts. I go to new to me forums from time to time and often notice that the first page of posts goes back six months to a year or a year. Why would I bother signing up and posting when the chances of a reply are minimal? How many new members would sign up for something where they can't judge the number and quality of posts before forking over money?

    I have been a contributor here for a number of years and it is the only forum I have ever spent money on.

  8. #23
    I'm on a fixed income. Canada and Old Age Pensions. Two thirds of which covers property tax, house and our car insurances. The rest we hold in reserve to cover income tax and emergencies. My wife works and makes a reasonable income but we don't spend on too many luxuries and that will now include this forum. Where and what you choose to spend your money on is up to you. I shouldn't have posted anything because in my gut I didn't think the better off among you would understand but I did anyway. As I said earlier. All the best.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lewiston, Idaho
    Posts
    26,931
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Christensen View Post
    I'm on a fixed income. Canada and Old Age Pensions. Two thirds of which covers property tax, house and our car insurances. The rest we hold in reserve to cover income tax and emergencies. My wife works and makes a reasonable income but we don't spend on too many luxuries and that will now include this forum. Where and what you choose to spend your money on is up to you. I shouldn't have posted anything because in my gut I didn't think the better off among you would understand but I did anyway. As I said earlier. All the best.
    Peter, my wife and I are both retired on fixed incomes. When we both worked, we were simply middle class wage earners. We weren't rich, by any means. We pay taxes, car insurance, house insurance, Medicare insurance, dental bills out of our pockets, eye glasses out of pocket, hearing aid out of pocket and manage to help some of our struggling adult grandchildren raising their young families. I paid more than $6 recently for the next 12 months contribution at SMC. Most people's internet access costs much more than $6 annually.

    I will make a recommendation to you and everyone here at SMC. When SMC goes to a subscription based format, if you really don't think you gain $6 worth of information or camaraderie don't donate and don't participate.

    But don't continue to disparage Keith, Jackie and the Moderators here because SMC is going to become subscription based. Keith and Jackie owe nobody anything for having provided SMC to the public for all these years. I personally believe too many people don't appreciate what the Outtens have endured, the personal attacks, the financial difficulties and the hours of behind the scene labor they have unselfishly and generously given.
    Ken

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Tasmania
    Posts
    2,162
    Those who have taken the p..s out of Peter for his reasons for not wanting to continue with the forum should be ashamed of yourselves. You don't know his personal circumstances and have obviously never been in the position of having to give up anything to keep yourself alive. You have now made him think twice about who his 'friends' are. Congratulations!

    As a separate issue, after 3 years and a few posts or so, I will be leaving as well. Keith, I understand your position but it doesn't match my circumstances. I have given my advice for free but I won't on principle pay to give my advice. I didn't quite get the 4 year apprenticeship completed but that's life sometimes.

    As a parting gift, here is Jimmy Barnes at his finest. This will be played at my funeral. You probably have to be Australian to know what he means when he refers to Uncle Sam. Cheers
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erSJGrpfnOI
    Every construction obeys the laws of physics. Whether we like or understand the result is of no interest to the universe.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati Ohio
    Posts
    4,418
    Its a valid question. How many of us would be here NOW if we were not able to wonder in here for free years ago???? I would just have moved on to another forum. Today I know better and pay my dues each year.
    But having said that. If the cost to keep the Creek open exceed the money coming in, what other choice is there?

    Thanks to everyone who keeps the creek operating.
    "Remember back in the day, when things were made by hand, and people took pride in their work?"
    - Rick Dale

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    West Lafayette, IN
    Posts
    5,063
    $6 is such a small petty amount of money for the knowledge you can get here. If you canít afford $6 how can you afford your internet bill, and likely cable bill as well?

    Maybe there should be a first year free kind of subscription? Get newbies hooked then require $6/yr.

    Thanks for all you do Keith.

    Edit: without the $6 from contributors, thereís likely need to be ads and banners all over the place, with everyone would complain about.

  13. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Lomman View Post
    As a separate issue, after 3 years and a few posts or so, I will be leaving as well.
    Take care Wayne. I've appreciated your help and your posts.
    Fred
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
    - Sir Edmund Burke

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    3,453
    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Fitzgerald View Post
    But don't continue to disparage Keith, Jackie and the Moderators here because SMC is going to become subscription based. Keith and Jackie owe nobody anything for having provided SMC to the public for all these years. I personally believe too many people don't appreciate what the Outtens have endured, the personal attacks, the financial difficulties and the hours of behind the scene labor they have unselfishly and generously given.
    I read Peter's copious posts over the last month and don't see where he disparaged anyone. Looks like he will be an asset where ever he winds up.

  15. #30
    I couldn't even begin to attach a value to the education, friendship, or support that I've gotten through SMC, but it's obviously an amount absurdly greater than $6. So I'll contribute. But it does feel odd to pay for access to content that is actually generated for free by other users.

    Reddit is an example of another online forum that relies on user-generated content, and they provide the hosting (actually, AWS provides their hosting...). They make money through ads (although presumably a large fraction of users have never seen them...adblockers), and while the size of their site is enormous, they're valued at $1.8B (yes - billion).

    I hope this change isn't the end of SMC, but I certainly am worried. Especially with other forums being available that are functionally identical. I wonder if in this day and age, where a huge fraction of the internet is cloud-hosted on services like AWS, is it financially sound to host a site like SMC on a dedicated, physical server (presumably, this is where most of the cost comes from)? I apologize if it's impolite for me to ask, but I've never been very clear what the Contributor fees pay for, or how SMC's operations differ from other popular forums.

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