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Thread: A new set of chisels from Stan

  1. #31
    I lost picture privileges this evening. It sounds like something you ought to be able to do fifty or a hundred of.

  2. #32
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    Pete, I agree with the longevity of (probably most if not all) Japanese chisels over (certainly modern) Western blades. I wrote the article on this: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRev...sCompared.html

    I am not sure if Warren is just trying (again) to make a case for vintage steel. We have two topics here: the construction of chisels, and their use.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  3. #33
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    Long live Stan. I am not sure I have seen a lively sharpening thread in a while.

  4. #34
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    Lets not forget what Stan Covington was trying to gain from being a member of this forum site.
    Last edited by Lee Schierer; 05-03-2019 at 9:15 AM.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Mathewson View Post
    here you are Vicent
    Thanks Keith, very nice.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Holcombe View Post
    Ura-Dashi is used if the hollow gets away from you.
    To many people, Ura-Dashi is into the unknown.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  7. #37
    Pete,
    Congratulations on your new chisels!

    But you've left us hanging on the big question. Have you committed sacrilege by hollow grinding them, and if so, have there been any deleterious effects?

    Another question - your review has revolved mostly around edge retention. There are some that speak to the harder Japanese steel taking a sharper edge. Undoubtedly a more subjective question than measuring hardness, but do you have any observations?

    Many thanks,
    Edwin

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Taran View Post
    They are ridiculously hard. The path that took me to Japanese chisels is that I was working with some very hard exotic woods and ordinary western chisels just didn't cut it. When you are chopping into lacewood, after just a few cuts the edge was trashed.
    I've wondered about this.

    Plane makers like HNTG work in similar exotic species and remove most rectilinear slots, mortices and grooves.

    With curved work (such as saw handles) is there a preferred way to remove bulk waste, without chisels?

    Water jet cutting comes to mind.

  9. #39
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    Bringing myself to hit an expensive blade with a hammer was daunting. It explains Toshio Odate recounting his apprenticeship when he was relieved of a valuable plane , unsuitable for starting out... it takes time to develop a feel for smacking steel.

  10. #40
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    An interesting insight on maintaining Japanese Chisels;

    https://knowledge.axminster.co.uk/tr...panese-chisel/
    Last edited by Stewie Simpson; 05-03-2019 at 7:53 AM.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie Simpson View Post
    Lets not forget what Stan Covington was trying to gain from being a member of this forum site.
    Stewie your assumption that Stan was only here to hawk tools blithely disregards his constant willingness to answer questions and share years of accumulated knowledge and experience in an area which - due to the language barrier for all of us non Japanese speakers - is notoriously difficult to ascertain regularly.

    It's also pretty low to level accusations at one whom isn't present to defend himself, IMO.
    ---Trudging the Road of Happy Destiny---

  12. #42
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    Ura-Dashi is the best way to preserve the back hollow, the point of the hollow is to allow the cutting edge to get extremely sharp by taking away all of the material that is anything other than about 1/16" of steel right at the cutting edge. It allows contact right up the edge so you can really knock out the burr effectively. If one were to surface the chisel backs until there is 1/2" of flat steel there the point of the hollow is greatly diminished.

    Stan need not take any grief for what he has been doing, he does this for no other reason that to put buyers in touch with blacksmiths. He's recouping his costs in doing so and helping to preserve an art form. An Art forms which needs patrons to keep it going. Some smiths who are really exceptional tend to be really lousy at selling themselves.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  13. #43
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    Edwin,

    You know it! The chisels came ground with a 27.5 degree bevel angle. I started experimenting with different angles and for the work I'm doing found that 35 degrees was the right one. I didn't completely grind the entire bevel, just an 1/8" or so as the more you grind when going from shallow angle to steep the more it decreases the land on the back and the more you need to lap the back. I know this too is sacrilege, but I only care about results, not all the rest of the tradition jazz. Over time I will get to a complete bevel angle.

    As to sharpness, I don't notice any difference, but the results don't lie. Having said that, I sharpen all my chisels on the tormek and then to the strop. I do actually use two tormeks, one with the 220 grit wheel and one with the 6000 grit waterstone, so I wouldn't expect any big differences in how sharp because they get sharpened the same way. The only issue for me is how long it stays that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edwin Santos View Post
    Pete,
    Congratulations on your new chisels!

    But you've left us hanging on the big question. Have you committed sacrilege by hollow grinding them, and if so, have there been any deleterious effects?

    Another question - your review has revolved mostly around edge retention. There are some that speak to the harder Japanese steel taking a sharper edge. Undoubtedly a more subjective question than measuring hardness, but do you have any observations?

    Many thanks,
    Edwin

  14. #44
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    Ura-Dashi is the best way to preserve the back hollow, the point of the hollow is to allow the cutting edge to get extremely sharp by taking away all of the material that is anything other than about 1/16" of steel right at the cutting edge.
    Surely this makes it very clear to someone who knows nothing about Japanese or Japanese chisels.

    Even with having read some posts about tools from Japan, it isn't clear to me if this consists of beating the bevel with a hammer or extensive grinding of the back.

    To me, it really doesn't matter. To someone visiting SMC for the first time it may be the understanding the language needed to use Japanese chisels is a reason to stick with western tools.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  15. #45
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    Jim,

    I'm no expert with beating chisels with hammers, but from what I've read, this is reserved for plane blades and wide chisels. Honestly, I have no immersion in Japanese chisel maintenance other than what I've read here and guidance from Stan (and that is only a couple weeks worth), but it's not that complicated. Further, the dish on the back (Ura) is pretty deep, at least on mine. It's like 1/16" so doesn't seem plausible that you will ever remove all of it. It is pretty amazing that even though very little steel contacts the lapping medium, it still takes a lot of effort to abrade it away. That steel is really hard!

    Pete

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