Help with Felder AD741/941 joiner planer

[David Less]

Hi All,

Looking for a 16" joiner/planer for my basement shop. I'm considering the MM elite 16 or maybe going extreme and possibly the AD941 or 741 with electric lift. Whats a few more bucks for a life time of luxury, LOL.

The constraint I have is table removal to help get in my basement shop. Its a straight shot down my stairs, but at the top I need to make a left 90 turn, much easier without an aircraft carrier type of top.

The MM elite is a no brainier, remove 4 SHCS and the top comes off, as for the Felder, well not much said or any info other than it can't be done or strongly not recommended, which I think is rather strange.

Can anyone shed some light into this for me?

I'm a Mech Eng by trade and am no stranger to indicating and setting up huge CNC equipment used in the automotive manufacturing industry as well as a machine designer, I guess a nut and bolt kind of guy.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated


david

[Phil Gaudio]

It is fairly easy to convert the MM elite to a power drive unit. It cost me nothing, since I had a spare 3/8" drive Craftsman socket which along with a dab of epoxy is all you need. I believe that when the drill is set to high speed, its actually faster than the Felder system.

IMG_1871.jpgIMG_1872.jpg

I have not removed the tables, but I have loosened the socket head cap screws on the hinge side of the unit so they could be shimmed. I don't see why they could not be removed and replaced without issue.

[David Less]

Yes, I agree, saw the driver, great idea.
As for the MM tables, yes looks like a no brainer, 4 bolts and looks like an easy set up and calibration because of the non parallelogram type of movement.
My main concern and question was about the felder and why people don't recommend removing it.

[Mike King]

The Felder's are fussy to setup. Getting the tables coplanar, if they are out of alignment, is a bit of a chore, so I suspect that's why folk don't recommend taking the tables off. But you might call technical support at Felder to discuss.

Mike

[George Makra]

I'm a Mech Eng by trade

Well if you look at root cause you will see what the problem is.
Sorry couldn't help my self.

[Brian Holcombe]

I have a MM16 Elite S, pretty solid machine. If I did it again I'd buy their 3ph machine so to have the electric up and down for the table.

[Mark e Kessler]

I have the ad941, you could take the tables off but it definitely would be a lot of work to dial back in but could be done. I would never do it but I did on my mmfs350 and the tables were never right again, I used it that way for 15yrs with some pain but skills will overcome machine deficiency's . The fact that u have experience with gauges is good but being an ME won’t help (I am one also) it may actually cause you more issues trying to get it perfect, do you have professional experience in processing wood, that combined with being an ME would be beneficial.

As far as the power drive goes, I wouldn't trade it for anything I had a mm for 25yrs and don’t miss the hand cranking at all. There are ways around it that will work like the drill but the convenience and repeatability are miles ahead of coming up with a drill contraption. If you do go the route of non-power drive being an ME you could just as easily add a stepper motor and even go a step further add an arduino and turn it into a digi-drive which I considered doing on a hammer before I decided on the AD941.

Mark

[David Less]

I guess that's were I get confused by not being able to look at the machine. If you are just removing the bolts and not touching any adjusting screws or shims why would the machine be that far out of complainer if it was set up properly to begin with??

Just my thought

[Mike Wilkins]

If you decide to go the Felder route, you could explain your situation to them and consider using their commissioning route. They will send a tech to your home to calibrate and set up the machine properly and operating to spec. Of course this will come at a cost that you will have to decide on.

[Brian Holcombe]

Hinges on the MM 41ES





Not shown is the sorcery required to install proper.

[Mark e Kessler]

Because you will need to loosen the adjustment bolts to get the tables off, even if only slightly you will need to adjust would’t take much to knock it out a couple thou .

I guess that's were I get confused by not being able to look at the machine. If you are just removing the bolts and not touching any adjusting screws or shims why would the machine be that far out of complainer if it was set up properly to begin with??

Just my thought

[Mark e Kessler]

Here are some photos of the ad941 hinge. Having owned mmfs350 and the ad941 the felder allows more adjustments without shims. my fs350 circa early 1990’s looked very similar to Brians 41 es without the spring. On the mm I removed the 2 socket head screws and the whole table just slides out with the hinge assembly, i moved it into a basement for storage, I don’t think it was ever right after that but I never bothered to set it it up just relied on good ol fashioned skills

The felder looks more complicated the hinge pin is trapped on either side with 4 bolts for adjustment, i would bet you would need to back them all the way out to maneuver the table out. I would call felder sales and talk to them about it. Like someone else suggested if you were going to have it commissioned that may work.

Commissioning could be from $300 to $1700 depending on location (its discounted if you add it when yu buy the machine) less. you are you might (i say might) be able to get it for less if the stars align you can wait and a tech is in the area.

mk




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[David Less]

Mark,

Thanks for the pictures
Looks like the springs come off easily, as for the table, Hmm
Depending on how the tables are secured with one another, removing them as an assembly should not put them too far out of alignment. From what I see, the picture indicates the adjustment mech is for the table (assembly) to the cutter head. Just thinking with my key pad.

Boy, I've got a huge basement but since I'm not into game rooms and bars down here, I gotta find away to get some nice equipment down there, LOL

[David Less]

Mike,

Thanks for the pictures, the MM is definitely more straight forward than the AD

David

[Mark e Kessler]

Not 100% sure but it looks like you would need a way to support the table by non human means and pull the pin to get the table off. their are 3 set screws and one bolt on each end of the pin the bottom bolt is the mainbusinss end with jam nuts so you would leave that one , yes the adjustments are to the cutter head but the adjustment is more complicated than that, you also have the temple bolts on the user side, typically you would back the far side (furthest from the cutter head) out of the way so you are dealing with three points of contact. think teeter totter then x2, don't under estimate the effort not saying it can' be done or that you won't get lucky but I spent 20ish hours and got it close but in the end I had a tech do it and it took him 4-5ish hours end he does it all the time (so I didn't get it close...). I can tell you after watching him do it my approach was 1/2 off due to my ME mind... Also it's a crap shoot if the machine arrives in calibration, mine was WAYYYY off like 3/8" tilting down on the infeed table

Mk.