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Thread: Handplaning vs machines...

  1. #16
    I use a planer sled for my Dewalt planer to get the first side flat. A piece of 3/4" MDF, a stop screwed to one end, and a pack of index cards. Use the index cards to keep rough board from rocking, and spend some time getting it right. I actually find it works better to have the "U" of the bow facing up, and cards down both sides bracing it from rocking. I have found if the "U" of the bow is down, the planer pushes the U down in the middle, and pops back out when it come out of the planer.

    I too have built a lot of furniture from hard maple and started with nothing but hand planes and rough lumber. Hand planing rough hard maple flat and square is a lot of work! So I treated myself to a Dewalt planer and don't regret it.

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by charles mathieu View Post
    that's very interesting guys ! And Chris, I already have a low angle jack and if I end up getting a jointer plane, why would I need a fore plane ? Wouldn't the low angle jack with it's 15" sole be enough for rough flattening ?
    Did you not write that you got blisters from the low angle plane? It was originally called a large block plane, not a jack. A wooden double iron jack plane is much more comfortable and more efficient. Actually made for this type of work.

  3. #18
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    A planer will make the two faces parallel to each other, but not necessarily flat. A banana in = a banana out, is something I've heard here in the past. There are some tricks to help, but choosing your boards carefully is also a basic woodworking skill.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by charles mathieu View Post
    that's very interesting guys ! And Chris, I already have a low angle jack and if I end up getting a jointer plane, why would I need a fore plane ? Wouldn't the low angle jack with it's 15" sole be enough for rough flattening ?
    When working on a cupped piece it is helpful to have a long sole on the plane to hold it up over the low spots.

    A 15" sole is a bit short for this. This is where a plane like a #6, #7 or #8 will come in handy.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by charles mathieu View Post
    Hi guys ! I'm starting woodworking and right now I only have a table saw, nicholson bench and a low angle jack. I always buy s4s wood from my local lumbyard and I noticed it's often not perfect once it gets in my shop. I've read a little bit about planers and jointers and while they seem awesome, money is tight and so is my floor space. I'm a bit lost regarding buying rough vs s2s and could use your knowledge. Is it possible to quickly mill lumbers using only a dewalt 13" planer a #7 jointer plane ? When you get s2s, do you have two perfectly flat and parallel surfaces ? I don't mind jointing edges by hand, it's super quick. But doing board faces with hand planes is very tedious.

    What do you guys recommend ? In the end, we'll move to a bigger house in about 2-3 years and it will likely have a garage so getting a power jointer will be possible but in the meantime should I stick with s4s or buy a lee valley jointer plane and dewalt planer ?
    Hello Charles, you used two words that give a clue to your dilemma "quickly" and "tedious". No doubt machines are quicker. You can get along without them. You LAJ will work for what you are trying to do. You need to get a cambered blade for it. Check out Derek Cohen's site for info. More planes would help. There is plenty of info on this forum about milling with hand planes. As far as rough and s2s goes there can be more work on either type material, smooth is not necessarily flat and square. You can get quicker and have it be less tedious with more experience but there is a learning curve. I mill from rough about 90% the other 10% is usually because the yard doesn't have the material I want to use rough. I don't have a jointer or planer. I use all low angle planes and like them. And yes I have used wooden planes and know how to use the chip breaker. I find low angle planes better suited to the way I work.
    Jim

  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by charles mathieu View Post
    that's very interesting guys ! And Chris, I already have a low angle jack and if I end up getting a jointer plane, why would I need a fore plane ? Wouldn't the low angle jack with it's 15" sole be enough for rough flattening ?
    A fore plane is typically a jack plane with a really wide mouth and a very heavily cambered iron. It can remove wood considerably faster (10x as fast?) than a jack plane, particularly when working across or diagonal to the grain. The downside is it will leave visible scallops so it is then followed up with something else. My fore is a wood soled transitional I bought for $10. I like the wood sole for this kind of work because there's no friction and the plane weighs considerably less than a metal bodied fore plane. But I am somewhat partial to wood soles in general.

    As for the length of sole, 15" is probably enough for most problems if all you are trying to do is get registration for the thickness planer. If I have a really long board than that bends along the length, then I will use my jointer for that. This doesn't happen too often because I'm usually not making big pieces that require four foot long boards.

    What's fun is when you have a board that won't fit through your planer. Then you get to do it all my hand no matter what.
    Last edited by chris carter; 04-29-2019 at 8:04 AM.

  7. #22
    wait a minute...that sounds like a scrub plane no ? I thought a fore plane was basically a longer jack plane ?

  8. #23
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    But it is a good excuse for a new toy.

    https://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=m...ickness+pkaner

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by charles mathieu View Post
    wait a minute...that sounds like a scrub plane no ? I thought a fore plane was basically a longer jack plane ?
    Do not get caught up in the plane nomenclature. Most of the time people are calling the same plane different things. Also there are different philosophies behind how much camber any plane blade should have.

    All of these things depend on the wood being used, the work being done and style of finished piece each individual is working to achieve.

    For me it is easier to have at least one of each size plane and then pick what is the best fit for the job at hand. For others, that could be a senseless way to set up their shop.

    Until a few years ago, a scrub plane didn't seem to have any use in my shop. Then one day while tinkering in the shop with some of the extra plane parts a #5-1/4 sole with cracks, a frog with a broken lateral adjuster and a few other parts were pieced together. The blade was given a heavy camber and voila, my first scrub plane.

    Using it for the first time let me see how useful it was for quickly working rough wood into smooth wood. The camber on the blade allows the user to remove a lot of wood quickly. High corners were gone in a flash.

    Not too long ago while out hunting rust, a #40 scrub plane popped up for a price that couldn't be refused. Then on my recent excursion of planing some rough beams, a spare #5's blade was given a camber. So in a shop that "didn't really need a scrub plane" there are now three planes set up to do nothing else.

    The #5 is called a jack plane in reference to being a 'Jack of all trades" plane. It can be a short jointer. It can be used as a longish smoother. It can also have a cambered blade and serve as a scrub plane. It is also the most likely plane one is to find out in the wild.

    After using a scrub plane, it is quicker to take down the peaks a scallops with a longer plane with a wider, less cambered blade. This is where a #5-1/2 or a #6 can be handy. The #7 & #8 jointers could do the job, but they are a bit heavy and can quickly wear one out.

    Of course this is from the perspective of one who does not use much power equipment.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  10. #25
    I live without a jointer and planer. So far I am fine with it as I rough dimension lumber using the bandsaw. I just remove waste that I no longer need from the stock itself. Then for the last face finishing I use a handplane.
    Before the bandsaw I use a scrub plane. Scrub plane can be very fast when it comes to edge removal. Each stroke I am able to remove about 5mm of wood itself. A draw knife can also do equally well for stock removal.

    But if you have many repetitive work like many similar panels to prepare I would suggest a planer. Easier on your back. For jointing a hand plane jointer is very efficient. If the board are straight. Most of the time I can joint them use 3-5 strokes of planing.
    For panel surfacing....... Depends on the size and wood itself.

    In Jim case when the width is 16".... Even the standard jointer of 12" would not surfice. A planer too. It is mostly handwork unless you have a 18" bandsaw.....

    Here is one thing the handplane wins. Final finish. Try that with a sander. It is actually slower.

  11. #26
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    First, where do you live roughly? I am in the middle of Ohio (Columbus).

    I am not good at flattening boards using hand planes, even though I own a couple. I have had significant success with placing my boards onto a "planer sled". My sled is very cheap and I use shims to make the board stable, then I send it through my planer and it makes one edge flat. Then, I can send it through with the other side NOT on the sled to make a parallel face, which will be flat because the other side is flat.

  12. #27
    S2S is square on 2 adjacent sides. The operation is usually done on a jointer. but the wood once it dries will twist a little after the fact. But buying wood this way will allow you to rejoint both sides to ensure straight and square,cut the edge on the TS and plane the other face

  13. #28
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    "In Quebec, we mostly use birch, maple, pine and oak"

    I live in Ste-Julienne, Québec. If your not too far from me we could meet and I would show you how I proceed using hand tools only. Obviously, machines are faster... It's a personal choice. In my case it's a hobby.

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