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Thread: Some Felder news

  1. #16
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    Dec 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew More View Post
    Any idea if the flesh sensing tech will be available outside of Australia? Obviously the big hold up is patents, which I've heard start to expire in the US around 2020. I'm expecting a re-introduction of the Bosch Reaxx with flesh sensing tech around that time, and hoping maybe something from the big cabinet makers as well. I can't help thinking the sale of SawStop to Festool was partially motivated by the expiration of the patents, and what that means for sales.
    Obviously Festool was also aware of any expiration dates of patent protection and that would have affected the sale price. Perhaps Festool's market position and access to capital made it easier to increase the size of the operation and better capture the value that the patented technology still offered. To be clear, I don't know when the patents expire, and am just going by what was suggested above.

  2. #17
    I believe there’s an Italian sliding saw that has flesh-sensing technology that drops the blade but doesn’t damage the blade.
    Requires pneumatic pressure for the safety mechanism. Forget who the manufacturer is.

  3. #18
    Griggrio

    Been out a couple years now..

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    Canada
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    177
    I remember they said they had one but have not heard any info that it was actually in production and people were actually buying them. Never heard any revelations about from the major woodworking shows.

  5. #20
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    Feb 2009
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    Bucks County, PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Cohen View Post
    K3 owners will likely also identify with my irritation each time one goes to adjust the blade height, as the handle has loosened and needs to be pushed deeper onto the spindle before it can be used. And then it needs to be swapped over to the angle side when the blade is to be tilted. Enough ... I wanted a second winder.

    Each handle is attached now with a set screw (drilled and tapped in a couple of minutes) ...
    I believe it was Marius Hornberger that simply glued a magnet into the back of the handle such that it contacts the end of the spindle when installed. That way it never comes loose due to vibration. I haven't tried that yet, so I'm still pushing the thing back up each time I adjust blade height. And I don't find myself making bevel cuts often enough to require the second handle.
    And there was trouble, taking place...

  6. #21
    I would be banging into that tilt handle constantly. I am happy to have a folding handle on my saw.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
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    Perth, Australia
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    Marius' magnet fix is a very good idea. I like it, and might have gone down that path if I had thought of it earlier. I may still .. if the second handle gets in the way. I have not found this to be the case so far - if it did, then it would when the K3 is set up for angled cuts. We will see ...

    I managed one other modification this past weekend - a zero clearance insert (ZCI).

    Again, owners of the K3 know the frustration when thin off cuts become stuck in the gap between the blade and the slider.

    Below is the original insert along with a blank for the dado blades ...



    One can convert the insert for the dado blade into a ZCI for the saw blade - just screw it in and raise the blade through it. The saw kerf created now needs to be extended to include the riving knife. I discovered that this creates a thin, flimsy and fragile outer section. After about a month, this snapped on the first ZCI I built.

    I had the idea to rebuild this insert with a strip of aluminium. This needed to be let it at the ends to fit flush with the sides. The new section was drilled and tapped for screws (no other way to attach it securely). The reason for the deeper aluminium section is to ensure that it is stiffer.







    I have used this one several times so far, and it works well. I also completed a 45 degree kerf, and then realised that a ZCI needs to be one or the other, so it looks like I will make one more.



    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Last edited by Derek Cohen; 04-29-2019 at 9:38 AM.

  8. #23
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    Feb 2009
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    Bucks County, PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Jenness View Post
    I would be banging into that tilt handle constantly. I am happy to have a folding handle on my saw.
    I think I have only left the handle on that spindle once when making a cut, but thankfully I was standing far enough to the left that I didn't bang into it. However, I think on one of their videos they point out that they only give you one handle so that you don't walk into it! That is, you're expected to put the handle back onto the height spindle after adjusting the bevel.
    And there was trouble, taking place...

  9. #24
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    Feb 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Cohen View Post
    One can convert the insert for the dado blade into a ZCI for the saw blade - just screw it in and raise the blade through it. The saw kerf created now needs to be extended to include the riving knife. I discovered that this creates a thin, flimsy and fragile outer section. After about a month, this snapped on the first ZCI I built.
    That's what I did with that dado blade insert, but it hasn't snapped yet. I haven't yet tried to make my own ZCI for this.
    And there was trouble, taking place...

  10. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by John Kee View Post
    Sawstop is now owned by the entity that owns Festool. Could be something with patents because those patents don't apply to Canada and many other countries. Bosch was only not successful in the USA.
    Patents have to filed in each country that you want protection in, then they have to be maintained which can be very costly.

  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by John TenEyck View Post
    I thought SawStop had that safety technology locked up with their patents. I wonder how Felder thinks they will be successful where Bosch was not?

    John
    I believe Felders solution will be with electromagnetics which will easily get around SawStops and Bosch's Patents and the disposables that they require.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark e Kessler View Post
    I believe Felders solution will be with electromagnetics which will easily get around SawStops and Bosch's Patents and the disposables that they require.
    I believe that Bosch also believed they could get around the SawStop patents, and their approach appears to be different enough from SawStop's to make a good case, from what little I know. Bosch's system used CO2 canisters to propel the blade below the table, while SawStop uses an aluminium break that jams into the blade bringing it to a stop. However the judge thought different, perhaps because of the necessarily similarity in making the determination of initial contact.

  13. #28
    Guys, regarding Felder's "Preventive Contact System", they are aware of the possibility of legal challenge in the US market and it's only going to be available on the big Kappa sliding panel saws. At least for the foreseeable future. Whatever the actual mechanism is, that is being a closely guarded secret. They're showing a machine with it at LIGNA next month and we apparently will have one in the booth at IWF next year. Someone on the creek needs to order from me so we can all find out. Here's the official link: https://www.felder-group.com/fg-en/pcs.html

    Erik

  14. #29
    I think the biggest problem for makers is the detection system and not how the blade is stopped. The SawStop detects the change in the electrical conductivity between the wood and your finger. Basically like the ohmmeter selection of a multimeter going beep when you grab the leads. Unless a maker comes up with something else like body heat or optical detection they are all going to have a problem if they try to use a conductive detection system.

  15. #30
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    Feb 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Christensen View Post
    I think the biggest problem for makers is the detection system and not how the blade is stopped. The SawStop detects the change in the electrical conductivity between the wood and your finger. Basically like the ohmmeter selection of a multimeter going beep when you grab the leads. Unless a maker comes up with something else like body heat or optical detection they are all going to have a problem if they try to use a conductive detection system.
    I think you're probably right, which is unfortunate, because I'm sure there is a ton of prior art on that approach, maybe not necessarily applied to this application.

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