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Thread: Sharpening a saw

  1. #1
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    Sharpening a saw

    So I have two questions about sharpening a hand saw. I have done it on old beat up saws with decent results, but I have to sharpen my newer saws soon and I don't want to "mess it up" too badly.
    I was reading a few articles/watching a few videos and sometimes you joint a saw, sometimes you don't. Also sometimes when using the file, you use equal amount of strokes, other times you use as many to make a sharp point at the saw tooth.
    I was wondering what you all do. Do you joint your saw teeth each time? Do you do equal amount of strokes with your file through the teeth, or go until it's sharp (could be different amounts on each tooth).

    Thanks all!
    Jason

  2. #2
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    Jason,

    Jointing is an essential step and should be done every time. The reason is, especially for beginning filers, is that you get a small flat on the top of the tooth which gives you something to shoot for with respect to how much to file. If you ignore this step, you have nothing to guide how much to file and your saw can quickly get out of whack as far as a straight cutting edge. If the teeth are in good shape, a single, even swipe is enough. If not, then do another until all the teeth has a small flat which reflects light. Don't overdo it as the more you remove, the more you will have to file each tooth to get rid of the flat and get a sharp point.

    Once you've done this, how much to file is immediately seen by the reduction in the flat. For each gullet, you should shoot to remove 1/2 the flat on each side so when you are done you have a sharp point again. Most people are surprised when they learn just how little metal is removed from each tooth to get it sharp again.

    Hope this helps.

    Pete

  3. #3
    Jason, you certainly will not need to joint the saw your first time. The reason is that we only joint to make up for sloppiness in the previous sharpening. If the present sharpening was carefully done, as it probably was for a good quality new saw, jointing is not helpful. Concentrate on taking an even amount off each tooth, and you may not have to joint the next time either.

    I have been sharpening saws since 1974, and had a small income from sharpening saws for others forty years ago. However, most of my sharpening has been sharpening the same handful of saws over and over again for my work. I am not a collector and I have never owned a power saw. What I find is that I can do numerous sharpenings without jointing. I would guess that it is on the order of half a dozen times between jointing. I can see that a beginner might need to joint more often than someone with a lot of experience and a steady hand. Also someone with experience using a saw can get a feel for when a saw needs jointing by the way it cuts.

    Pete Taran had asked previously what part of Pennsylvania I lived in: Lancaster County.

  4. #4
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    Practice on an old saw. Lightly joint prior to the first sharpening. If you do not have a saw set, place a flat blade screwdriver
    between two saw teeth and twist slightly, progressing down the length of the saw, two teeth at a time. After setting the teeth
    you can dress the sides of the teeth with a small flat file.
    Last edited by lowell holmes; 04-23-2019 at 1:13 PM. Reason: spelling

  5. #5
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    Jason,

    Agree with most of what Warren said, especially as it relates to an experienced filer. The skill learned about how to apply even pressure to sharpen is one that is learned with experience. Until you learn that experience, having a visual queue to inform your hands how to apply that pressure and what it feels like is useful. You likely can get away with not jointing your saw the first time, but there is no downside to doing it for the reasons stated. Your saw will certainly not be any worse off by jointing, and likely will be better.

    Warren, grew up in Lycoming County, and went to college in Carlisle. Picked many tools in Adamstown and Morgantown over the years.

    Pete

  6. #6
    Not to derail the thread but Pete, when were you at Dickinson (not many college choices in Carlisle)? I grew up just north of Harrisburg and graduated from Dickinson in '78. Fond memories of Bixler's Hardware Store, and Massey's frozen custard. The older gents at Bixlers used to be find almost anything up in the attic... a friend started spelunking and found carbide lamps at a garage sale. Bixlers had replacement reflectors and ignitors in the attic!

  7. #7
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    Barney, Dickinson it was, class of '88!

  8. #8
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    I am at Dickinson, Dickinson , Texas that is.
    We don't have a college, but there are some universities near by.

  9. #9
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    Jason; imo, the worst advise your going to receive is not to joint the tooth line before you commence sharpening.

    Stewie;
    Last edited by Stewie Simpson; 04-23-2019 at 8:51 PM.

  10. #10
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    By all means joint to start with for the visual reference of the little flat surface. Don't do any more than you need to though.

    I sharpen without jointing way more than I do with jointing. All the old guys I knew always did it that way too. Now I'm older than the guys I knew as these "old guys".

  11. #11
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    Thanks for the help all, appreciate it. So just to double check. Joint the teeth, you see that shiny spot. Then sharpen the teeth until sharp, not necessarily sharpen every tooth exactly the same amount of strokes?
    That to me was the most confusing thing. Some people say you have to do two strokes on every tooth (or three). While others say you sharpen the tooth how ever many strokes it needs and then move on. So one tooth could be 1 stroke, another 3, etc.
    Really appreciate the help you all have given!

  12. #12
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    You'll figure it out once you get into it. I take one stroke per tooth, but the pressure varies depending on how much each tooth needs. One stroke mainly because I sharpen often. Each stroke is a full stroke because I buy full length files, and am cheap.

    I may be one of the few left that uses one hand. Just like sharpening a chainsaw chain, I start by dropping the little smooth end in the gullet. It gives you a split second to see that you are in the right gullet, and how much that one needs. Files last longer with smooth strokes. You can take the same amount of metal off with a short, hard stroke, or a long, light smooth one. Files like long, and smooth better.

    When I'm teaching someone new to file anything, I tape a white piece of paper horizontally behind the tool so they can see how much metal filings come off with a smooth stroke of different pressures.

    I like a bright light shining at the face of the sharpened tooth to shine back towards my eyes. That makes it easy to see which one is next while you're finishing the one you're on. It all goes really fast once you get the hang of it.

  13. #13
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    James,

    Definitely the latter. To do otherwise would be like saying every tenon cheek needs 3 swipes with a plane to fit regardless of how thick it is. You file enough to get the result you need, the flats are instrumental in knowing when you have achieved the result.

    +1 Stewart!

    Pete

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Kamery View Post
    Thanks for the help all, appreciate it. So just to double check. Joint the teeth, you see that shiny spot. Then sharpen the teeth until sharp, not necessarily sharpen every tooth exactly the same amount of strokes?
    That to me was the most confusing thing. Some people say you have to do two strokes on every tooth (or three). While others say you sharpen the tooth how ever many strokes it needs and then move on. So one tooth could be 1 stroke, another 3, etc.
    Really appreciate the help you all have given!

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Kamery View Post
    Thanks for the help all, appreciate it. So just to double check. Joint the teeth, you see that shiny spot. Then sharpen the teeth until sharp, not necessarily sharpen every tooth exactly the same amount of strokes?
    That to me was the most confusing thing. Some people say you have to do two strokes on every tooth (or three). While others say you sharpen the tooth how ever many strokes it needs and then move on. So one tooth could be 1 stroke, another 3, etc.
    Really appreciate the help you all have given!

    No, No and No.

    In routine sharpening we do not joint. We try to take an even amount off each tooth, enough on each tooth to eliminate the dullness on the worst section. We achieve this evenness by taking long smooth strokes and by using the same number of strokes on each tooth.

    After a number of sharpening sessions like this the saw will get a little out of whack, depending on how careful you have been. A common problem is that the teeth set to the left will be different from the teeth set to the right. Then we joint the teeth to get back to uniformity.

    The next operation is shaping, where we work on teeth that the jointing has shown to be to long, and file just those teeth.

    Then we sharpen, trying for uniformity by counting strokes as before.

    Your saw, Jason, has not been repeatedly sharpened by hand and certainly is not out of whack. It does not need jointing. It does need uniform treatment to each tooth, whether they are dull or not.

  15. #15
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    Warren must have been including me when he said "we". His method is exactly the same as I have seen old carpenters use many times.

    There is no right, and wrong answer, but things do develop over time of experience.

    As an example of work done with a handsaw, this siding picture was already stored here. I have always cut wood siding with a handsaw because it can't be cut that accurately with power tools. It might look like it's really tight, but you can take a fingertip, and move each board in, and out as it is resting on the nails rather than being pounded in tightly against the studs. If any one board is cut a little long, and forced in, it would open up a gap on the end of the one under it. This picture was taken about 25 years after I built that house in 1991. I don't like to use caulking on the exterior of a house, and especially on one that is not going to be painted.

    The saw that had been sharpened many times before this siding was installed, was sharpened pretty much as Warren just described. I like to keep one sharp, so it gets sharpened frequently.

    edited to add: That siding is off the saw. You can't get it to fit that well if you have to play with it after you cut it.

    Sometimes when I joint small backsaws, I will use a 4" Smooth file. I'm too lazy to do a lot of extra work.
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    Last edited by Tom M King; 04-24-2019 at 9:15 AM.

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