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Thread: Air Cleaners - Questions / Ideas about filters.

  1. #1

    Air Cleaners - Questions / Ideas about filters.

    I have a couple of JDS-750’s. Just 12 x 24”, 1/4 HP.

    I have a very marginal cyclone (1.5 HP) so I'm worried about fines hanging in the air. I have very mild asthma, so it's extra important to maximize my air cleaner setup.

    1: If you always use a DC, is there really any reason to use the air cleaner’s pre-filter? Pre-filters are supposedly good to 5micron. Are the fines that escape at the machine larger than that?

    2: For those of you with an electrostatic pre-filter, how do you clean it?
    I read that they really should be disassembled, but that’s not going to happen!
    How about dousing it (from the outside) with hot soapy water, then flushing with a cold hose?

    3: The internal bag filter: Not a question, but I’m going to get some of these Merv16 units :
    https://www.purolatorairfilters.com/...=98&pockets=05
    Purolator Nano-Pak Bag

    98% Efficiency / “Merv 15 16” / 5 Pockets

    A pack of TWO is only $99. Seems like a no-brainer over the stock JDS bags.

    I just thought I’d mention it since this is a good price & you can even buy just one, for almost as cheap.
    ----------------------------------------------

    4: Is there any health reasons to keep using / replacing the charcoal filter? Smells don’t bother me, and they don’t last very long, anyway. Plus, removing it should take a tiny bit of strain off the motor. That can’t hurt.

    I can’t see any need, but I thought I’d better check first. When’s the last time you changed YOURS?


    ## 5: HEPA UPGRADE?
    Suppose I DO leave off the charcoal, and maybe the pre-filter. (or use a paper filter, which has less resistance than an electrostatic filter) That would take some strain off the motor. Do you think it would then have enough power that I could attach one of these industrial HEPA filters to the back?
    https://www.filtersfast.com/p-hepa-filter-IH1PS0-2412115-24x12x11-5.asp?relp=2

    If so, that would be a very nice system, for a very reasonable price.

    But with a Merv16 bag filter, would the HEPA be a little bit overkill, considering it might wear out the motor?
    Supposedly:
    MERV 16 captures 95% of particulate between 0.3 - 1.0 micron size particles. “ So "almost" HEPA.
    - But these bags are listed as "Merv 15 16" whatever that means.

    Whaddaya' think?
    Last edited by Allan Speers; 04-20-2019 at 11:59 PM.

  2. #2
    So, has no one tried adding a true HEPA filter to one of these air cleaners?

    It seems like an obvious thing to try.

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    I run a JET AFS-1000B which uses a 12x24 prefilter. The inside filter is 1 micron, but I do use a pre-filter with MERV 8 rating. It fills up pretty quick and gets fine dust. They are inexpensive and saves me from cleaning the inside filter as often. I clean the inside filter outdoors with compressed air.

    My dust collector is filter-bags and until I upgrade, having the 1000B is a big help.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Rapp View Post
    ... I do use a pre-filter with MERV 8 rating. It fills up pretty quick and gets fine dust. They are inexpensive and saves me from cleaning the inside filter as often.
    I guess that's the answer to my first question, right there. Thanks, Justin.
    -----------------------


    Now for the Merv 16 & HEPA ideas ....

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    I would check Wynn for your filter replacements. I just bought two for my JDS airtech HP and they were $80ish shipped to my door. Your look was $50 and maybe didnt include shipping.

    You would be surprised how the electrostatic filter picks up fines. I usually blow it off outside with a compressor or leaf blower. I probably do that once a month and replace the inner filter every 8-12 months.

  6. #6
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    Woodcraft sells replacement internal pleated filters for these air cleaners. I bought one last year for mine.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    Woodcraft sells replacement internal pleated filters for these air cleaners. I bought one last year for mine.
    Thanks - 58 bucks for a new internal filter is a great price. I also see they have electrostatic filters for about 45 bux or so. When I run out of 12x24's I might give one of these a try. Reusable = less in the landfill!!

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    Woodcraft sells replacement internal pleated filters for these air cleaners. I bought one last year for mine.

    OK, but what's the Merv rating? The ones branded JDS are nowhere near Merv 15, let alone 16.
    Those "Supermax" ones at Woodcraft say (at the bottom) "will filter down to 1 micron."
    Compare that to a Merv 16 bag: "
    captures 95% of particulate between 0.3 - 1.0 micron."


    And again, I'm wondering if, even with the Merv 16 / 5-bag internal filters, an extra true HEPA on the back would be a good idea.

    ALSO: Those "Supermax" ones are a "3 pocket" design, and they are the same 12" deep as the Purolator 5-pocket I linked. Therfore they have significantly less surface area than the Purolator. That means more resistance, and faster clogging.
    ---------

    I see that Wynn sells a 4-pocket "Vee Bag" filter, for only $69 / pr. However, again there's no Merv rating, and they are only 95% efficient, whereas the Purolator I linked is 98% efficient.
    Purolator also makes a 95% efficient version, which cost s a little less.
    Last edited by Allan Speers; 04-23-2019 at 2:53 PM.

  9. #9
    And it gets even more complicated:


    Purolator also has "pre-filters." They don't use that term, just the 12 x 24 x 1" size.
    They have four types (none electrostatic) with various Merv ratings:

    https://www.purolatorairfilters.com/12x24x1

    Two are Merv 4, one is Merv 8, and one is Merv 11.
    the price is close enough that you might just say, "heck, give me the Merv 11," but it's not that simple, because the higher the Merv rating, the more restriction on airflow / strain on the motor. If using the Merv 16 inner filter, plus a Merv 8 pre-filter, AND the charcoal filter (if anybody really does) then the total resistance must be significantly more than with stock filters, and we're only talking about a 1/4 HP motor.

    Maybe that won't make any difference, but who knows?
    And if you use an electrostatic pre-filter, that's even MORE resistance.
    And then if you add a true HEPA (as I linked) to the back, that's a LOT more resistance.

    I guess maybe the only way to know is to try it, and monitor the motor's current draw.

  10. #10
    I think I'll just give it a try and report here:


    I'll get the Merv 16 5-pocket, a single true HEPA for one of my 750's, and a single electrostatic, which I can compare to a clean, stock JDS paper pre-filter that I have.

    Worst-case scenario: I might have to look for a more powerful, used squirrel-cage blower on Ebay.

  11. #11
    Join Date
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    I have used charcoal pre-filters on my Jet 1000B, and I loved having it when I was using finishes. Doesn't make everything go away, but I thought it did help some.

    FWIW. Obviously, the MERV rating is more important, but Filters-Now sells units that do both.
    If you drive at the speed of light, do your headlights work? - Steven Wright

    If a man points at the moon, an idiot will look at the finger.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Lightstone View Post
    I have used charcoal pre-filters on my Jet 1000B, and I loved having it when I was using finishes. ....
    I didn't think of that. I guess I'll test motor draw with the charcoal as well.


    BTW - how often do you change your charcoal filters? Theoretically you're supposed to every 6 months, regardless of use. I would be nce if there was an easy way to seal them air-tight in-between use, so they'd last much longer, but I sure can't think of a way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Lightstone View Post
    Filters-Now sells units that do both.
    That seems like a bad idea to me. I want to change each filter when it's time for THAT filter. Using a combo means you're always replacing one of them before you need to.

  13. #13
    LOTS MORE READING DONE. I HAVE SOME MORE INFO AND SUGGESTIONS:


    First, I think I know what it means when Purolator shows "15 16" for their 5-bag filters. That's the Merv rating for the 95% and 98% versions, respectively. They don't explain this, but it's obvious once you see a MERV RATING CHART:

    MERV RATING CHART #.jpg

    Odd that they claim 95% for Merv 16, when that's the official spec for Merv 15. I think they made a mistake.

    Unless that chart is wrong. I did find another Merv chart that is slightly more conservative, indeed showing Merv 16 at 95% and Merv 15 at only 85%. But then how does Purolater have a 98% efficient Merv 16 filter?

    I'm also not yet clear where a "true HEPA" fits in these charts. Dick Wynn says the Merv 15 DC filters he sells are as good as they get, but NOT true HEPA. He says DC manufacturers should not be using that term. (Makes sense if the chart with "85%" is correct.) You can also see that Grizzly now offers a true HEPA DC filter, which has rectangular HEPA filters AFTER the Merv 15 tubular filters.

    True HEPA is supposed to be 99.97% efficient at .3 micron, so that must be equal to Merv 17 or 18, I guess.
    But I wonder: If you have two 98% Merv 16 air cleaners, in series, then the second one is theoretically filtering 98% 0f the 2% which came out of the first unit. That's 99.96%, virtually the same as HEPA.

    Hmmm .....
    ================================================== ================


    ### Regarding electrostatic pre-filters;

    I think they are a bad idea, for several resaon:

    1: They only have a Merv rating of ONE !!!!!

    Regular pre-filters can be bought with Merv rating from 4 to 11.

    2: They have a relatively high flow resistance.

    Regular pre-filters have significantly lower flow resistance.
    It’s probably more beneficial to get a lot of air flowing in the shop, than to have an extra-efficient pre-filter, especially if you have a Merv 16 inner filter.



    3: You can see when a plain filter gets dirty, esp if you get the white ones, whereas you have to guess with the electrostatic.

    ----------------------------------------------


    I think it might be best to use the inexpensive Merv 4 pre-filters, (in white) because they offer the LEAST flow resistance, and still remove a lot more than the electrostatic filters.

    Last edited by Allan Speers; 04-23-2019 at 2:55 PM.

  14. #14
    Allen if you truly want to compare where Merv enters into Hepa this starts at 17-20 merv.This is 99.3 to 99.7!

    merv 16 filter is cleaner than most outside air. I use Merv 10 filters in my home HVAC.

    In the winter, I sometimes drop down to merv 6 for my HVAC and replace every month-ish. In the winter pollen is not my problem.
    Last edited by Matt Mattingley; 04-23-2019 at 2:50 AM.

  15. #15
    And yes, I have no life!





    Actually, I really do, and I had better get back to it soon ........

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