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Thread: Veritas Combination Plane Tuning

  1. #16
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    After all of the above, how thick of a shaving are you trying to cut?

    See if you can get the plane cutting with a minimal shaving thickness before advancing the blade. Once you have the plane taking a good shaving, the blade can be advanced for a thicker shaving.

    There are surely those who can take off 1/16" on each pass. Leave that for the weight lifters. Most of the time my shavings aren't much more than 0.010". If you just get to, it not much time is needed to plow a groove 1/4" or more deep.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  2. #17
    Hi William,

    Good advice above for sure. I'll add that I've found my joinery planes (I also have the LV skew rabbet) to be by far the most fiddly, which sort of makes sense because they need precision in more than one plane (geometric plane that is...). A bit like a sports car-- amazing when well tuned and well driven, but (disastrously) unforgiving when not.

    I have the combo plane and really like it for grooves. I do score with a gage oftentimes if the grain isn't perfectly straight and also start with a thin shaving and then go for thicker.

    Best,
    Chris
    "You can observe a lot just by watching."
    --Yogi Berra

  3. #18
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    Jim, think my shavings were modest but my target groove was 1/2” in my practice. They varied quite a bit from stroke to stroke. Toying with the idea of dimpling the outside skate faces to reduce friction. If I dimple first then polish it will be easier.
    ​You can do a lot with very little! You can do a little more with a lot!

  4. #19
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    I don't understand why there is friction from any part of the plane, other than the iron. This is a picture of me plowing a 1/2" groove with an old Stanley 55, that I'm sure is in much more need of many things than that new combination plane. There is no need to push down hard on the plane, and that goes for any plane.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  5. #20
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    William, if you are having problems using the plane and can not diagnose the problem I don't think you modifying the plane will do anything but just make it worth less when you give up and sell it. Lots of good advice given to you last year and this time as well. Read the book take some good advice. Dimples and epoxied in nickers are most likely not a cure.
    Jim

  6. #21
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    Tom there is friction from the fence, the bottom of the skates and the sides of the skates, plus the cutter of course. I waxed the fence and it soaked it up like a sponge.
    James I will read the book again but the LV demo guy they set me up with had no more luck than I did. At this point the money is not a factor I would rather modify it up the ying yang in an attempt to understand it. That’s my R&D background.
    ​You can do a lot with very little! You can do a little more with a lot!

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by William Fretwell View Post
    Tom there is friction from the fence, the bottom of the skates and the sides of the skates, plus the cutter of course. I waxed the fence and it soaked it up like a sponge.
    James I will read the book again but the LV demo guy they set me up with had no more luck than I did. At this point the money is not a factor I would rather modify it up the ying yang in an attempt to understand it. That’s my R&D background.
    If you can not get it to work and the folks at LV can't get it to work maybe it is time to appeal up the chain of management to see if they have someone who can trouble shoot the plane or exchange it for one they can at least get to work.

    One thing to check would be to make sure the fence and both skates are all parallel. It only takes one of them being slightly out to cause problems.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  8. #23
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    That friction shouldn't amount to anything unless you are pushing hard with the plane against the wood. I have heard of people waxing planes, but I have never done it, and have planed wood for many hundreds of hours. The plane body needs to only kiss the surface of the wood. Pushing hard is just extra work. The iron should be the only part, to amount to anything, that needs force applied to it.

    Also, look at those chips in the air in that picture. They are only chips, instead of a long curl, because the grain must be rising sharply ahead of the cutter. I'm not pushing really hard, but the stroke does have some momentum behind it before the iron contacts the wood. If you are pushing down really hard with the plane, and trying to ease into the cut with the iron in contact with the wood, I can see where it would seem like there is too much friction. That old 55, with all the nickel plating off of it from sweat, must have many factors more friction than a fancy, new one.
    Last edited by Tom M King; 04-21-2019 at 8:07 AM.

  9. #24
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    I have found Lee Valley to be extremely accommodating. I bet Rob Lee can help.

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
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    Some progress!
    When you cut a 1/4” groove as the fence descends it reduces the ability to stop the plane tilting right. There seems no reason the top of the fence should be level with the skates. I flipped the fence over so it was 3/8” above the skates. This seemed to improve control but you loose at the bottom end, so I made a new fence. It is 3/8 above the skates and restores the original depth plus 1/8”.
    I also made it 2” longer at each end. Control is improved. The friction issue both, forward and backwards is bothersome. I honed the outside faces, 800 then 6000, then 10,000. That also seems a little better. Comparing the back stroke with and without the blade in place suggests half the friction is the back edge of the blade. Tapering it to 80 degrees as suggested earlier is very hard but did round the edge a little.
    I do think the handle is too high, it has too much leverage which fights the skates and fence so my next project is to replace the handle with a large knob that straddles the support with a fitted groove an inch deep and keeps your hand far lower and keeps the force forward not down so the fence can do it’s job.

    The very variable cutting action is still a mystery, I wonder if the bottom of the
    skates ahead of the blade should be raised slightly.
    A69C6238-C7C9-4B33-9C09-95E60E91F7AC.jpg
    ​You can do a lot with very little! You can do a little more with a lot!

  11. #26
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    I've never thought about it, but I don't think I back up in the groove. If I do, neither the iron, nor the plane is bottomed out.

    I would like to get my hands on one of these planes, but have no need to buy one with all the old planes I own.

  12. #27
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    Oct 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by William Fretwell View Post
    Some progress!
    When you cut a 1/4” groove as the fence descends it reduces the ability to stop the plane tilting right. There seems no reason the top of the fence should be level with the skates. I flipped the fence over so it was 3/8” above the skates. This seemed to improve control but you loose at the bottom end, so I made a new fence. It is 3/8 above the skates and restores the original depth plus 1/8”.
    I also made it 2” longer at each end. Control is improved.
    Yes, there is a difference between a "Plowing" fence and a "Rabbeting" fence. When rabbeting, a fence that clears underneath the skate(s) and blade is needed. When plowing, a fence that comes above the bottom of the skate(s) is best. Your making another wood fence for plowing is a good idea.

    The Veritas Combination Plane comes with a rabbeting fence, the Veritas Small Plow Plane comes with a plowing fence. You can see the difference in the relationship between the skate(s) and fence in these two diagrams. One is of the Veritas Combination Plane, the other is of the Veritas Small Plow Plane.

    Note: For making small rabbets, the Veritas Small Plow Plane has a notch in the fence to clear underneath the blade.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  13. #28
    William,

    Am I understanding that you push forward making the planing cut, and then pull the entire plane backwards through the cut?

    Not saying That’s wrong, I have never done that with any of my planes or hand files etc., but I am open to other ideas.

  14. #29
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    Feb 2004
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    Perth, Australia
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    William, the photo shows you making a 1/4” (or so) groove using both skates. Remove the second skate and only use one. The double skate set up is only for wide blades. The extra skate will be causing unnecessary friction.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  15. #30
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    Kevin the recommended procedure is to start planing at the far end in small stages and work backwards. Leaving the plane in the cut feels more natural and when you are well into the cut pulling it out is far more work. When you pull it backwards there is a partial lift going on.
    Derek I will try as you suggest but keeping both skates in the cut was an attempt to keep the thing level. The merest adjustment of the depth of cut has dramatic results and when you have it set for a fine cut it will just stop cutting; seemingly for no reason. With only one skate I fear the cutting variability will be far worse but I will try it.
    I have lots of planes that I get to work beautifully, none are as perplexing as this one!
    ​You can do a lot with very little! You can do a little more with a lot!

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