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Thread: Notre Dame what changes in the rebuild?

  1. #1
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    Notre Dame what changes in the rebuild?

    So let's assume that Notre Dame will be rebuilt and sorta' similar to the original, what do we guess will be different? I can start;

    1. It will have sprinklers added at least to the attic

    2. It will not be lit by candles

    3. Modern construction safety and environmental practices will be used

    4. Modern cranes will be used

    5.

  2. #2
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    I believe they will use modern materials (IE Steel) for the roof structure, both for code/safety reasons, but also because there are no trees left in quantity that would be large enough to replace the ~13,000 oak trees that were harvested at about 300-400 years old for the original structure. Steel would also provide a positive means for them to tie the roof structure to the stone structure stronger than what was previously in place, IMHO. I suspect they will use wood where it "shows" but a large part of the original roof structure wasn't actually visible based on photos I've seen. Where wood needs to appear, it will likely be "cladding" rather than structural. And yes, modern fire protection would make sense, too. The real bottom line here...there is a ton of work that's going to have to happen for this restoration and it will be a miracle if they can pull it off in the short 3 or so year time frame that has been bantered about. Just cleaning up the mess from the fire is going to take meticulous work to insure salvageable and undamaged elements are preserved during the rebuilding.
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    When I saw the fire and all the scaffolding I was reminded of a fire on one of the jobs I worked on. I was sitting in the lower level of what was to become a 9 story office building having lunch with a few other electricians when one of the guys on our crew came in and asked with a stone face, "Are you just going to sit there eating lunch while the building burns down?" The guy across the table gave me that look. We both knew this guy was constantly trying to get a rise out of you. But then he insisted. Finally we went outside to see what he was talking and OMG! There was a huge blaze on the top floor with black smoke billowing out. Windows that made up the screen wall were getting so hot they bowed out and fell to the ground. And there was guys trapped up there.

    Everyone made it out without injury but what the Fire Department determined was someone was cutting metal studs with a chop saw before lunch. Sparks made their way into a stack of foam insulation and it was flammable. Halfway through lunch it ignited but there was no one nearby to put it out.

    I heard workers at the church had just left before the fire started. Could have been the same kind of thing.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    The real bottom line here...there is a ton of work that's going to have to happen for this restoration and it will be a miracle if they can pull it off in the short 3 or so year time frame that has been bantered about. Just cleaning up the mess from the fire is going to take meticulous work to insure salvageable and undamaged elements are preserved during the rebuilding.
    Three years?!? I suspect any schedule that isn't measured in decades is unrealistic. The water damage on the lower levels will probably take much longer to deal with than the fire damage up top. Just drying it out properly is going to take a long time.
    https://www.latimes.com/science/la-s...417-story.html
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee DeRaud View Post
    Three years?!? I suspect any schedule that isn't measured in decades is unrealistic. The water damage on the lower levels will probably take much longer to deal with than the fire damage up top. Just drying it out properly is going to take a long time.
    https://www.latimes.com/science/la-s...417-story.html
    I agree. I honestly can't see this being done in less than a decade. I was heavily involved in restoration of an historic building that had suffered several 'modernization' renovations over the decades. The actual construction schedule was 3 years, but took closer to 5. And this was a tiny project compared to the Notre Dame. I think the budget was somewhere around 20 - 30 million.

  6. #6
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    I think the actual rebuild will be reasonably quick. However, there will be a long time to evaluate the structure and a long time arguing about architecture and materials to use.

  7. #7
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    Pretty sure they won't have a lead roof this time around.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    I believe they will use modern materials (IE Steel) for the roof structure, both for code/safety reasons, but also because there are no trees left in quantity that would be large enough to replace the ~13,000 oak trees that were harvested at about 300-400 years old for the original structure. Steel would also provide a positive means for them to tie the roof structure to the stone structure stronger than what was previously in place, IMHO. I suspect they will use wood where it "shows" but a large part of the original roof structure wasn't actually visible based on photos I've seen. Where wood needs to appear, it will likely be "cladding" rather than structural. And yes, modern fire protection would make sense, too. The real bottom line here...there is a ton of work that's going to have to happen for this restoration and it will be a miracle if they can pull it off in the short 3 or so year time frame that has been bantered about. Just cleaning up the mess from the fire is going to take meticulous work to insure salvageable and undamaged elements are preserved during the rebuilding.
    There was an interesting article in the New York Times the other day, quoting a fire control expert stating that the building would have been condemned by modern standards. Unless they wanted to create another fire trap, it would seem obvious that the people in charge would put in a metal-structural roof with whatever fire breaks can be included. No sense in recreating the problems of the past. With some sensitivity, it would look the same.

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  10. #10
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    What the rebuild will look like. Go down about 1/3 of the way to see how the replaced Chartres cathedral roof after a fire in 1836. Used iron, probably riveted. Looks similar to a wooden canoe.
    Bill D

    https://www.abelard.org/france/cathe...g_chartres.php

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Dufour View Post
    Now that is a very cool photo, showing beams hundreds of years old over the masonry domes.
    NOW you tell me...

  12. #12
    Sharing one architect's vision for a re-built Notre Dame Cathedral: https://edition.cnn.com/style/article/france-notre-dame-green-scli-intl/index.html

    I hope you find it as exciting as I did. The thermal buffer zone concept is very doable. It's widely publicized that the Mall of America has no central heating despite being in Minneapolis, by use of passive solar energy.
    Might not be everyone's cup of tea, but at the very least you have to marvel at the innovative thinking.

    I'm really looking forward to seeing other designs come forward.

    It's also interesting how architects and other artists of all types can be ahead of their time. For example in Paris, the I.M. Pei glass pyramid entry to the Louvre was absolutely reviled at first. Now it is pretty much universally regarded as a masterpiece.

    Enjoy,
    Edwin

  13. #13
    I do not like it. That roller coaster curve at the bottom of the spire is asspire-- irrational. A design that weakens verticality
    is never good.

  14. #14
    My own design features a USA idea from a few decades back. Large parking lot. Each space will have a speaker that
    hooks over car window. Great for over sleepers and those who failed to pick up their clothes from the cleaners.
    Last edited by Mel Fulks; 05-10-2019 at 2:29 PM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Fulks View Post
    My own design features a USA idea from a few decades back. Large parking lot. Each space will have a speaker that
    hooks over car window. Great for over sleepers and those who failed to pick up their clothes from the cleaners.
    Sorry, I read this three times, and I still don't get it. Could you explain?

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