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Thread: Band saw blade size and burning

  1. #16
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    Bandsaw blade shop in Knoxville

    Quote Originally Posted by Chapel Eastland View Post
    Can you tell me the bandsaw blade shop in Knoxville? I'm down I-75 S and have been ordering my Lenox blades from Bandsawdirect. They're good, but take about 10 days from order to delivery. Having someone closer might save me in a pinch.

    Thanks.
    Chapel,

    It's Holston Gases. They deal primarily in gas but sell welding equipment and supplies and the bandsaw blades. There's a blurb here: https://www.holstongases.com/

    Duane who runs the bandsaw blade shop comes in early and leaves at 3pm so I you want to stop by and get one made while you wait it's best to call first to make sure he has that blade stock on hand and has the time to make one. He's made one or two for me while I waited (just took a few minutes) but when I wanted quantity I ordered them then picked them up the next day or so. I have also called in the morning and he had a blade ready for me to pick up by the time I got there.

    If he doesn't have the stock you need it may take a couple of days to get it. Some stock he doesn't normally carry, for example the 1/2" x 3tpi flexback blades I like so the last time I had to buy a 100' coil - my saw uses 11'10" so I got 8 blades from that box. (I typically get that many anyway since I hate to not have a spare or two. Since I resharpen 8 blades might normally last me a year or so.)

    He doesn't make carbide blades so when I wanted one he had to order it from Lenox, but his prices was significantly cheaper than anywhere I could find online.

    In all the years I've been buying blades there I've had only one break at the weld. He made me a new one at no cost.

    Holston Gases used to be south of the river but they are in a new facility now. Take 40 to I-275 north, get off at the Baxter Avenue exit, turn right, and they are the first thing you come to on the left. The bandsaw blade shop is deep in the building, so if I carry in a blade to match or want to talk to the guy about something special, I ask at the counter and he comes up to the front or someone takes be back to the shop. Nice people. I bought all my welders and plasma cutter there as well as other tools and supplies.

    JKJ

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by John K Jordan View Post
    Chapel,

    It's Holston Gases. They deal primarily in gas but sell welding equipment and supplies and the bandsaw blades. There's a blurb here: https://www.holstongases.com/

    Duane who runs the bandsaw blade shop comes in early and leaves at 3pm so I you want to stop by and get one made while you wait it's best to call first to make sure he has that blade stock on hand and has the time to make one. He's made one or two for me while I waited (just took a few minutes) but when I wanted quantity I ordered them then picked them up the next day or so. I have also called in the morning and he had a blade ready for me to pick up by the time I got there.

    If he doesn't have the stock you need it may take a couple of days to get it. Some stock he doesn't normally carry, for example the 1/2" x 3tpi flexback blades I like so the last time I had to buy a 100' coil - my saw uses 11'10" so I got 8 blades from that box. (I typically get that many anyway since I hate to not have a spare or two. Since I resharpen 8 blades might normally last me a year or so.)

    He doesn't make carbide blades so when I wanted one he had to order it from Lenox, but his prices was significantly cheaper than anywhere I could find online.

    In all the years I've been buying blades there I've had only one break at the weld. He made me a new one at no cost.

    Holston Gases used to be south of the river but they are in a new facility now. Take 40 to I-275 north, get off at the Baxter Avenue exit, turn right, and they are the first thing you come to on the left. The bandsaw blade shop is deep in the building, so if I carry in a blade to match or want to talk to the guy about something special, I ask at the counter and he comes up to the front or someone takes be back to the shop. Nice people. I bought all my welders and plasma cutter there as well as other tools and supplies.

    JKJ
    Many thanks for the help. I'll give them a try.
    "From the point of view of a tapeworm, man was created by God to serve the appetite of the tapeworm." Edward Abbey

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gaylin View Post
    John, Iím not an expert but Iím also not new to setting up band saws, and Iím pretty certain I have it correct. In fact I did exactly what you indicated when I noticed blade deflection with resawing: the tension gauge is set at 3/4Ē for a 5/8Ē blade. Helped with the deflection but not the burning. Should note it is not a massive amount of burning but itís there.

    May or may not be enough, depending on the saw. I checked my 18" Rikon - to get good tension on the 1/2" blades I had to set the tension indicator to over 1".

    If you know someone with a tension gauge maybe they could check for you. I bought a Starrett tension gauge but Iturra Design sells one of they make for a lot cheaper.

    Iturra doesn't have a web site but can be reached by phone or email:
    KALLL@comcast.net
    904-642-2802 ē Work
    4636 Fulton Road, Jacksonville, Fl 32225-1332

    There is also a free way to measure the tension accurately, described here by John TenEyck:

    https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....04#post2640804
    http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...33#post2640833

    JKJ

  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by John K Jordan View Post
    May or may not be enough, depending on the saw. I checked my 18" Rikon - to get good tension on the 1/2" blades I had to set the tension indicator to over 1".

    If you know someone with a tension gauge maybe they could check for you. I bought a Starrett tension gauge but Iturra Design sells one of they make for a lot cheaper.

    Iturra doesn't have a web site but can be reached by phone or email:
    KALLL@comcast.net
    904-642-2802 • Work
    4636 Fulton Road, Jacksonville, Fl 32225-1332

    There is also a free way to measure the tension accurately, described here by John TenEyck:

    https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....04#post2640804
    http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...33#post2640833

    JKJ
    If you want to learn an incredible amount of information about bandsaws, contact Iturra Designs at the above email address and request a catalog. More than a catalog, it's valuable and insightful knowledge that won't be found elsewhere. I received the catalog about 5 weeks ago and have read it twice through. Iturra knows his stuff and generously shares it.

    As I have studied many of the typical complaints about bandsaw blades, I'm convinced that inadequate tensioning is the culprit for 90% of the problems. The typical tension checks by the deflection or flutter methods leave much to be desired for optimum performance. While some do successfully employ such methods for their particular work style, it's far from accurate and most likely very low from the tension required for excellent performance.

    A tension gauge provides data, not subjective or anecdotal guesses.

    If those who experience continued problems used a tension gauge to assess the acutal amount of tension that run, they would be shocked to discover how far below the manufacturer's recommended tension they are. Also they would discovered that with larger blades, their bandsaws can never reach those recommendations.

    That's why using a smaller blade, but correctly tensioned, will long-term out perform a larger blade in relative sharpness, quality of cut, and longevity.

    Spending your money for a tension gauge will save you long-term in costs of blades, poor performance, and aggrevation.
    Last edited by Chapel Eastland; 04-18-2019 at 12:03 PM.
    "From the point of view of a tapeworm, man was created by God to serve the appetite of the tapeworm." Edward Abbey

  5. #20
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    I have the 14" Jet with a riser block and I run a 1/4" blade. I have never experienced burning. I have never cut more than 1 1/2" thick wood.

    Check this site. https://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=m...es+for+bandsaw
    Last edited by lowell holmes; 04-18-2019 at 3:35 PM.

  6. #21
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    Sep 2018
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    Maryland
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    Thanks for the additional tips. Chapel I will contact iturra designs and look into a tension gauge. I need to see if there is a local blade manufacturer in the Baltimore-Washington area. Lowell this is a new model Jet saw. 13Ē throat. Thanks for the link.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gaylin View Post
    Thanks for the additional tips. Chapel I will contact iturra designs and look into a tension gauge. I need to see if there is a local blade manufacturer in the Baltimore-Washington area. Lowell this is a new model Jet saw. 13” throat. Thanks for the link.
    Local blade shop:

    Enter your location on this page.
    https://www.lenoxtools.com/FindRetai...stributor.aspx
    Scroll down the list on the right and look for the "LENOX Certified Weld Center" icon. I see several in your area.

    JKJ

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chapel Eastland View Post
    ...The typical tension checks by the deflection or flutter methods leave much to be desired for optimum performance. While some do successfully employ such methods for their particular work style, it's far from accurate and most likely very low from the tension required for excellent performance.
    Some people do tension adequately from those methods but I think some hit on the useful tension by accident and some by long experience and trial and error. The problem I see is these are difficult skills for the newer user to learn on his own and not much easier if shown. I've tensioned my 1/2" blades on the Rikon so much and with occasional checks with the gauge that I can almost hit the numbers by feel now - even if I taught someone else to feel the tension it wouldn't necessarily transfer to a different saw or blade.

    I think woodworking and woodturning clubs would do well purchasing a gauge for members to borrow. I'm certainly willing to bring mine for local shop visits (but I won't lend it!)

    JKJ

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowell holmes View Post
    I have the 14" Jet with a riser block and I run a 1/4" blade. I have never experienced burning. I have never cut more than 1 1/2" thick wood.
    Those 14" saws with risers are capable of incredible performance when tuned up a bit. Besides my bigger Rikon I have a 14" Delta with riser. I spent some time making the wheels coplanar and upgrading some tension parts. (purchased from Iturra)

    I used the Delta for years to cut up to 12" log sections into turning blanks and to resaw, up to a 12' long Doug Fir 2x12. With the smaller motor you just have to make slower cuts but it will certainly do the job. I suspect the newer 14" saws are even better but I haven't used one.

    JKJ

  10. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gaylin View Post
    Thanks Edwin, that’s helpful. I was generally aware of this rule of thumb but the additional details are very useful. Why do you think the 116 is the way to go?
    Dan,
    I recommended 116" because it is a common size for the 14" class of bandsaw plus you noticed it referenced in the spec sheet. I think it's better to err to the smaller size, but honestly your adjustment range should accommodate the range of size choices you are deliberating.

    Turning to some of the other responses you have received, I will be a heretic and share my opinion that tension is important to a point, but way overblown in discussion forums. I have seen a philosophy that more is better with tension and not only is this misleading, but beyond a certain point, excessive tension can represent harm to your saw. I don't think you need to throw away money on a tension gauge, and whatever you do, beware of the high tension springs that Iturra sells. Instead I would refer you to some of the resources Fine Woodworking has put out from Michael Fortune on his methods for setting up a bandsaw, choosing blades and all aspects of use. I took a class with him, came back to my shop, followed his recommendations, and have never looked back. And the saw he was using in the class was a Jet 14". https://www.finewoodworking.com/2011...t-up-a-bandsaw

    The tension you need is just enough for the saw to cut and perform to your satisfaction. Any more tension than that is unnecessary and mostly theoretical. In your case, based on the problem you have described, I will be interested to hear if your cutting experience is improved by changing nothing other than the blade to the Timberwolf you mentioned (though since your saw is new, I would recommend aligning it in the way Michael Fortune demonstrates because it's possible your blade is not centered in the kerf). If you try them and find Fortune's techniques do not work for you, then you can try Louis Iturra's recommendations, which will probably involve buying products he sells.

  11. #26
    "I don't think you need to throw away money on a tension gauge,"

    I want to know how much tension is on the blade for the same reason I use a dial indicator to set jointer knives, to check table saw blades, and use a ruler to be accurate in measurements.

    As to Michael Fortune, there's nothing in his video that isn't good advice and he also says in another video that blade drift is not a real thing, rather incorrect bandsaw setup. Let's not make Mr. Fortune anti- tension gauge.

    As I said earlier, the flutter and deflection method may work for some and more power to those that do so. But flutter and deflection tells you nothing measurable about blade tension.

    It's antecdotal at best, not data. And for every one person who finds it works for them, there's 99 others who use those methods without a clue and have problems.

    It's like kicking a tire to determine air pressure. I prefer to use a tire pressure gauge. While others are guessing, I know.
    "From the point of view of a tapeworm, man was created by God to serve the appetite of the tapeworm." Edward Abbey

  12. #27
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    Because of the burning, you might want to double-check that the teeth on the blade are pointing down. It is possible to get the blade twisted inside out and then install it with the teeth pointing up, which could cause burning. Not that I've ever done that, of course.

    --Geoff

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff Crimmins View Post
    Because of the burning, you might want to double-check that the teeth on the blade are pointing down. It is possible to get the blade twisted inside out and then install it with the teeth pointing up, which could cause burning. Not that I've ever done that, of course.

    --Geoff
    Yikes, will it even cut at all like that?

    I once put a chainsaw chain on backwards. Before I tried to use it a friend politely asked me if I'd cut anything yet with that chain.

    JKJ

  14. #29
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    Like John, I can't imagine an upside down blade would cut at all. Maybe about as well as a butter knife.

  15. #30
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    John, Chapel, Edwin, Geoff,

    Thanks for the followups including the link to the local blade makers and the link to the Michael Fortune set up article. The blade is not upside down but I do see how that could happen! The Timberwolf arrived today and I will install it per the manual and see if the problem is fixed. If not Iíll consult the Fortune setup and see if anything is wrong. Iíll explore greater tension. Then Iíll report back. Thanks again for all the help!

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