Notre Dame on fire now in Paris

[Frank Pratt]

And for those interested in building of the old cathedrals, a must read is Ken Follet's Pillars of the Earth.

That's a wonderful book. Makes you feel as though you are taking part in the building of the cathedral. Its sequel, World Without End is also excellent.

[John K Jordan]

That's a wonderful book. Makes you feel as though you are taking part in the building of the cathedral. Its sequel, World Without End is also excellent.

Have you visited the National Cathedral in DC? At one time they had a wonderful exhibit on the 5th or 6th floor about the construction, complete with some of the cut stone blocks. Last time I was there, though, that exhibit had been replaced with one about repairing the earthquake damage from 2011.

Even kids love to visit, especially when we look for the Darth Vader gargoyle way up high.

JKJ

[Mel Fulks]

Money will pour in and it will get done. A LOT will come from USA. There might be some statues with new faces. Snap,Crackle ,and Pop.....Tony Tiger.
Even with all the wonderful things Europe has, travelers often come back here reporting how old fashioned ,to put it kindly,
some things are. A neighbor told me that when she visited the Louvre they had the windows open.

[Pat Barry]

I find it curious that there weren't any functioning sprinklers inside the building. Or were they, and just ineffective?

[Edwin Santos]

Even with all the wonderful things Europe has, travelers often come back here reporting how old fashioned ,to put it kindly,
some things are. A neighbor told me that when she visited the Louvre they had the windows open.

That's a scream. In other words are you saying you know people who have come back from a trip to Europe complaining that it was too.... European?

[Jim Becker]

I find it curious that there weren't any functioning sprinklers inside the building. Or were they, and just ineffective?

I suspect it would be extremely rare for a historical structure like this to have modern things like sprinklers...but also suspect that however they decide to do the restoration, such modern things will come into play going forward.

[Frank Pratt]

I don't recall seeing any sprinklers in the Florence Duomo either. Retrofitting a building like that would be so invasive and overt that I can see that as justification for not doing it.

[Pat Barry]

I don't recall seeing any sprinklers in the Florence Duomo either. Retrofitting a building like that would be so invasive and overt that I can see that as justification for not doing it.

I hope they rethink that after what just happened.

[Edwin Santos]

I don't recall seeing any sprinklers in the Florence Duomo either. Retrofitting a building like that would be so invasive and overt that I can see that as justification for not doing it.

The Florence Duomo is a structure worthy of being called miraculous, even by today's standards. Thankfully it is constructed completely from stone, masonry and clay tiles. To my way of thinking this would make it a non-combustible structure for the most part. Some of the contents may be combustible, such as the pews and other furniture, but in relation to the overall space I do not think they would be considered significant.

I think many historical structures of the sort we are discussing are constructed primarily from stone and forms of masonry. Even ancient structures like the Pyramids, Angkor Wat, Taj Mahal, Pantheon, Acropolis, Hagia Sophia, and the Colosseum don't seem to have much if any wood in them as far as I recall.

I think of what happened at Notre Dame as a tragic accident more than a design failure or negligence for not retrofitting a massive structure like that with sprinklers.

Plus it was the roof that caught fire. Let's say the whole interior was sprinklered. How would the sprinklers have extinguished a fire occurring overhead? Not to say there was not a lot of damage below, but at best fire sprinklers might have mitigated some of the ground level damage but I question whether they could have prevented this fire.

[Rick Potter]

Wonder if Notre Dame was insured?

[Frank Pratt]

Wonder if Notre Dame was insured?

My guess would be that it was self-insured.

[Frank Pratt]

The Florence Duomo is a structure worthy of being called miraculous, even by today's standards. Thankfully it is constructed completely from stone, masonry and clay tiles. To my way of thinking this would make it a non-combustible structure for the most part. Some of the contents may be combustible, such as the pews and other furniture, but in relation to the overall space I do not think they would be considered significant.

I think many historical structures of the sort we are discussing are constructed primarily from stone and forms of masonry. Even ancient structures like the Pyramids, Angkor Wat, Taj Mahal, Pantheon, Acropolis, Hagia Sophia, and the Colosseum don't seem to have much if any wood in them as far as I recall.

I think of what happened at Notre Dame as a tragic accident more than a design failure or negligence for not retrofitting a massive structure like that with sprinklers.

Plus it was the roof that caught fire. Let's say the whole interior was sprinklered. How would the sprinklers have extinguished a fire occurring overhead? Not to say there was not a lot of damage below, but at best fire sprinklers might have mitigated some of the ground level damage but I question whether they could have prevented this fire.

There is a wooden chain around the base of the dome, as well as iron chain(s). I'm pretty sure the structure supporting the tile roof above the stone vaults above nave & aisle is also wood. A quick search didn't confirm or deny this, but that was a very common practice.

As for sprinklers, I am surprised there were no sprinklers installed in the roof structures above the stone vaults.

The Duomo is a miraculous structure. I count the visit there as one of my most profound travel experiences. Anyone traveling to Florence really should visit the Duomo and if physically able, make the climb up through the inside of the dome to the lantern on top.

I am sad that I never got to see Notre Dame.

[Jon Nuckles]

I find it curious that there weren't any functioning sprinklers inside the building. Or were they, and just ineffective?

From the New York Times:

Much remains to be learned. But already it is emerging that Notre-Dame, irreplaceable as it is to France’s heritage, lacked the fundamental fire-prevention safeguards that are required in more modern structures and have been grafted onto other ancient cathedrals elsewhere in Europe.

Some of those elements, like firewalls or a sprinkler system, were absent by choice — so as not to alter the landmark’s design or to introduce electrical wiring deemed a greater risk amid the timbers that supported Notre-Dame’s ornate lead roof.

“There had been a systematic refusal to install anything electrical” within “the forest” because of the risk, said Pierre Housieaux, president of the Paris Historical Association. “Everyone knew that the attic was the most fragile part.”

Inevitably, some of those decisions are being called into question in the aftermath of a calamity that scarred a jewel of Gothic architecture precious to all the world, and left a gaping wound in the heart of Paris.

[Jim Becker]

It was mentioned on a news article this morning that it will be essentially impossible to replace the roof structure with like for like as there just are no trees left, more or less, that are large enough. It's expected that more modern materials will be used, both for practicality and because they want a very fast restoration time frame.

[Tom M King]

The questions I get asked the most, which also immediately alerts me to the fact that these people aren't worth taking much time talking to, are, "How much is it going to cost, and when will it be finished?" No lie. These are the number one (since they are always asked together) most asked questions I get when discussing resurrecting some Historic house from partial ruin, by visitors, when I'm at some stage into the process. These aren't the people I work for.

Setting the highest priority on the list at getting it done in five years is just plain stupid.