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Thread: Is a 1.5 HP cyclone enough for my garage shop?

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    NW Indiana
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    2,243
    Any measurements made at the end of a duct or hose suffers from the turbulence problems. Even the spiral wire in the flex hose will cause problems.

    The best measurements are made with a straight section of pipe and making measurements in the middle to avoid turbulence. Also, need to make appropriate measurements across the section.

    I did some testing with a fan anemometer at the end of a pipe and got numbers that varied widely and not close to the actual flow.

    On the Australian forum, wood work forums . com, BobL does a technical description of the precise way to measure flow and describes the issues of measuring at the end of a duct.

  2. #32
    IMHO, the only way to make a small cyclone perform adequately, would be to vent outside. Filters tend to cut your air flow in half. If they have dust buildup, probably more.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
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    SE PA - Central Bucks County
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allan Speers View Post

    FWIW, I'm 99% sure I will pass on this unit. Jim Becker wrote (above) that these had smaller impellers, and that makes sense given that a lot of internal area is taken up by the filter. If you remove that internal filter, that area is not likely designed specifically to swirl dust & chips. - So I doubt you have the same physical system as a modern 1.5 HP Onieda, and those are still marginal.
    The impeller diameter isn't related to the internal filter taking up space since the impeller is set above the filter in the original configuration. They were just small units that were designed and built in the early days of Oneida offering cyclone systems that were hobby shop focused. Time and experience brought design changes even for the most modest of systems. The industry...and consumer...learned that advances in impeller design including size could have a major impact on system performance even on the smallest systems along with improvements in other elements of the cyclonic separation system.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  4. #34
    ^ Thanks, Jim.

  5. #35
    Join Date
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    Lake Gaston, Henrico, NC
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    In my experience, anything less than 3hp is wishful thinking.

  6. #36
    ### NEW QUESTION:

    With a 3 HP Cyclone, is 6" ducting enough?

    I'm asking because my neighbor now says I can just HAVE the bloody thing, if I do all the labor to take it down, and that includes an entire shop's worth of ducting and flex tubing.
    - But it's 6" ducting. If that will work once I find a better cyclone, then it's a no-brainer to take it. If it's really too small, then no.....

    --------------------

    - And bear in mind that, once I have a more powerful cyclone, I WOULD like to be able to use it on hand tools as well, in case that makes a difference. In other words, if the 6" ducting causes a bit of pressure loss, but also increases air flow, and THAT helps with a hand sander, then I'd probably welcome the trade-off.
    - If that is indeed how it works. ( ? )
    Last edited by Allan Speers; 04-15-2019 at 8:48 PM.

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Allan Speers View Post
    ### NEW QUESTION:

    With a 3 HP Cyclone, is 6" ducting enough?
    A few things kill performance:
    1) Smaller ducts
    2) Flexible hose
    3) Tight corners

    I guess you could add leaks, but I don't think it's a serious issue with PVC, or metal ducting. That having been said I added mastic everywhere I could with my metal ducts.

    I would just buy new ducts, but I don't want to spend your money. For my 2 car garage I think I spent ~200-300 on ducting, but it was much easier than trying to get old stuff to work. What I CAN tell you is that TOO large a duct on a smaller intake is not a problem.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
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    Many 3hp cyclones will function just fine with 6" ducting over the majority of the network. They often have larger inlets, but it's not difficult to run a little 7" or 8" out to join up with 6" from there on. Some of the better current larger cyclones also can sense duct conditions and adjust their performance to maximize air flow...not cheap, but possible.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  9. #39
    I think 6" is absolutely adequate.

    Am but as Jim said, if you're wanting something larger, consider running some 7" out to the first branch/drop and then 6" from there.

    That's what I have on my 2hp Oneida. Works great, no wishful thinking needed...

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Allan Speers View Post
    ### NEW QUESTION:

    With a 3 HP Cyclone, is 6" ducting enough?

    I'm asking because my neighbor now says I can just HAVE the bloody thing, if I do all the labor to take it down, and that includes an entire shop's worth of ducting and flex tubing.
    -
    Take it!
    Set it up without any filters and have it vent outside
    Nothing ventured
    Nothing gained

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    E TN, near Knoxville
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    7,849

    6" ducts

    Quote Originally Posted by Allan Speers View Post
    ### NEW QUESTION:

    With a 3 HP Cyclone, is 6" ducting enough?

    I'm asking because my neighbor now says I can just HAVE the bloody thing, if I do all the labor to take it down, and that includes an entire shop's worth of ducting and flex tubing.
    - But it's 6" ducting. If that will work once I find a better cyclone, then it's a no-brainer to take it. If it's really too small, then no.....

    --------------------
    How much "better" of a cyclone are you set on?

    I run my 5hp ClearVue cyclone with 6" PVC ducts. It is apparently designed for 6" ducts and comes with a 6" inlet port from the factory. The longest run in my shop is over 40'. In my opinion the performance is incredible. (I do use 4" ducts on some machines and sometimes connect smaller tools with a shop vac hose.)

    I can't imagine needing a more powerful cyclone with larger ductwork unless perhaps in a shop where more then one chip-spewing machine is running at the same time.

    Here is something from ClearVue to read about ductwork: https://www.clearvuecyclones.com/content/6-duct-design

    JKJ

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Central WI
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    5,183
    Duct and system size really depend on length and number of runs, and most importantly, the machines in use. 6" mains are undersized for most 24" planers, 16: jointers, edge or WB sanders, or mid size shapers. They work with smaller machines although a 7" main on a typical 15-16" BC impeller will deliver more cfm to the machine for similar cost. Dave

  13. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by John K Jordan View Post
    How much "better" of a cyclone are you set on?

    I run my 5hp ClearVue cyclone with 6" PVC ducts. It is apparently designed for 6" ducts and comes with a 6" inlet port from the factory. The longest run in my shop is over 40'. In my opinion the performance is incredible. (I do use 4" ducts on some machines and sometimes connect smaller tools with a shop vac hose.)

    I can't imagine needing a more powerful cyclone with larger ductwork unless perhaps in a shop where more then one chip-spewing machine is running at the same time.

    Here is something from ClearVue to read about ductwork: https://www.clearvuecyclones.com/content/6-duct-design

    JKJ

    Thanks, John. This is most helpful.

    - Great responses all-around.

    I would probably go to 3 HP max due to the limits of my electrical system. Plus I don't have the type of huge machines David mentioned. So, I guess 6" will do fine.

    This system will at least get me going, and I'll have the ducting done while I look for something more powerful. I'll put the planer right next to it, and I'll vent outside at least through the summer. It might even be possible to retrofit a different impeller.
    Let's see how she does....
    Last edited by Allan Speers; 04-16-2019 at 2:28 PM.

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Upland CA
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    4,197
    Late to the party as usual.

    I had that unit in my old shop with 6" HD HVAC piping. 6" all over changing to 4" at the drops. I kept a 2 1/2" flex hose open at the blade port of my RAS, so it could not collapse the cheap pipe. Only one drop was 6", for my Jet 15" planer, and it was the closest to the cyclone.

    The first time the filter needed changing, I left it out and exited through the wall. This system worked fine for me with the machines I had....Unisaw, Jet planer, small shaper, router table, RAS, 14" Band saw. I only opened one duct at a time, and had a minimum of flex tubing.

    About running small sanders and whatever on a DC system...Never made sense to me to neck a 6" pipe down to less than 3/4" for a palm sander. I just use a $50 Quiet series Shop Vac with a bag in it, mounted under my table with appropriate overhead hose. Works fine for my sanders, biscuit joiner, and compact router. Haven't gotten around to putting a Dust Deputy on it yet.
    Rick Potter

    DIY journeyman,
    FWW wannabe.
    AKA Village Idiot.

  15. #45
    ONE MORE QUESTION, GUYS:


    I got the thing over to my shop today. It turns out that the main trunkline along the ceiling (about 25' or so) is 6", but all of the drops are 5", plus one 4". The flex tubing is all "smooth bore" 5" and 4".

    Once I upgrade the cyclone itself, I wil certainly change the drop & tubing for my 12" planer to 6". However, with the current blower (1.5 HP, 12.5" backwards-curved impeller, and a 6" inlet ) Would I be better off (for now) keeping the 5" drop, for better static pressure, or would a 6" drop still be preferable?

    Note that the planer will be right next to the cyclone, and with minimal flex tubing.
    Also that I will be adding a Shelix head soon, so the chips will be much smaller.

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