A few "easy" Arkansas Stones questions: Translucent vs Surgical Black

[ken hatch]

I'm dying to see the portfolio of anybody who can tell the difference, explain the difference, and exploit the difference (particularly the latter) between a translucent and a surgical black.

Charles,

Best I can tell their ain't any. In use, as I've posted, my translucent feels slightly "toothier" than the black but that could just be my imagination. Lots of time I will use the translucent just because I can see the swarf where with the black not so much.

ken

[Andrew Hughes]

I went looking for my Translucent Arkansas stone. I couldn’t find it anywhere so I must have thrown it away probably was having a bad day.
So I have a new quest for a new polishing stone. Now that I have different wider selection of chisels steel I am hopeful.

[Mel Fulks]

Agree with Ken. I've noticed that in sharpening info you will see "I really like the transluscent " . Never seen " the transluscent sharpens better" Every one likes see-thru rocks.

[bridger berdel]

I'm dying to see the portfolio of anybody who can tell the difference, explain the difference, and exploit the difference (particularly the latter) between a translucent and a surgical black.

They are natural stones so there can be considerable variation from stone to stone of the same type. Any difference between "translucent white" and "surgical black" has to be less than the variation within type. Add to that that they behave considerably differently fresh than broken in and for all practical purposes they are interchangeable.

Someone (here, i think) told a story of buying a surgical black, using it for some years then cleaning it with some solvent and having most of the black wash out. Turned out it was an off color translucent white dyed black and sold as a surgical black.

[Tom M King]

I wondered if that was what happened with my first one, that I cleaned with a very strong solvent. It had always looked black to me before, I bought it as a Black, and had never seen anything about a Translucent at that time. It does put a finer final edge on that the newer Black one.

[Charles Guest]

Charles,

Best I can tell their ain't any. In use, as I've posted, my translucent feels slightly "toothier" than the black but that could just be my imagination. Lots of time I will use the translucent just because I can see the swarf where with the black not so much.

ken

I've used both (but now own neither) and couldn't tell any real difference, so my experience essentially mirrors yours.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I've used both (but now own neither) and couldn't tell any real difference, so my experience essentially mirrors yours.

It is my understanding that they should be essentially the same, but, there was some question in my mind about it.

[Kurtis Johnson]

• 1. ...
  2. Surgical Black and Translucent are mostly the same in that they have the same density range. Translucent is more expensive only because it is less common. I should see a similar edge produced from either of these stones.

Eight years ago I read an article on the internet that translucent was harder than black, and that the finite translucent was nearly, if not entirely, mined out and that any existing translucent were being being halved in thickness from 1" to 1/2" to double supply. The latter two points are plausible, the first, that one is harder than the other, maybe, I don't know. And maybe it's more true with the older mined stuff. Maybe ....

I'll leave my maybes behind and contribute the following:

You appear to be correct about density, which perhaps is determined by grain and compactness of that grain. An info sheet that came with my 1/2" thick "Translucent Arkansas" from Dan's Whetstone Company purchased maybe eight years ago, states:

"Two basic classifications of whetstones are known as Hard and Soft Arkansas and Soft Arkansas. The Hard Arkansas is very fine grained, hard and compact. The Soft Arkansas ... is relatively less compact resulting in high porosity and less density."

And there are three grades:

"SOFT ARKANSAS (Medium) …
HARD ARKANSAS (Fine) …
BLACK and TRANSLUCENT (Extra Fine) stones are classifications included in the TRUE HARD ARKANSAS grade category according to specific gravity density standards. True Hard terminology was adopted to include all extra fine stones regardless of color. Black Arkansas stones are black or blue-black in color. Translucent stones may be a translucent shade of gray, white, yellow, brown or sometimes even pink. They are most commonly used for industrial applications where an extremely fine polish is required."

IMG_3106.jpg IMG_3108.jpg IMG_3115.jpg


A friend gave me this 1" thick beaut a few years back:

IMG_3121.jpg IMG_3133.jpg IMG_3131.jpg


Circa 1953...

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I just thought folks might be interested in the literature.

Kurt

[Kurtis Johnson]

… And here's the instructions for sharpenning your knives if interested:

IMG_3114.jpg

[Nicholas Lawrence]

I found the link below on the Dan’s website. They show the same specific gravity and same “grit” for the “true hard” “translucent” and “black hard”.

The “true hard” is referred to on the same page as the “finest grade abrasive available today.”

They state clearly that the “translucent” grade is just because some customers prefer the color. But then they go on to refer to the black with some marketing mumbo-jumbo that makes it sound like it is even better but at the same time seems to be pretty carefully phrased to avoid coming right out and actually saying that.

My guess is the “true hard” “translucent” and “black” are pretty much identical except for the color.

https://www.danswhetstone.com/inform...ne-grades-101/

[Charles Guest]

If one can tell the difference, and more importantly exploit the difference, then you are a rare craftsman indeed.

[michael langman]

Any toolroom I ever worked in the translucent was the only Arkansas used for polishing. These were used every day in working on tools and dies. Never saw a surgical black.

[Mel Fulks]

Any toolroom I ever worked in the translucent was the only Arkansas used for polishing. These were used every day in working on tools and dies. Never saw a surgical black.

Since they work equally well I think the ordering was done by a buyer. Not the owner.

[Jim Koepke]

My two new bench stones came today. It was funny when the UPS truck pulled up a kitchen knife was being sharpened. It may have looked strange to the driver seeing me holding a knife and stone at the door to my shop. He may have not noticed since it is about 50' away from where he was.

Anyway down to the rest of the story. Here is my current set of Arkansas stones:

Arkansas Stones.jpg

From left to right they are a soft Arkansas, a hard Arkansas, a black Arkansas and top right is a dark translucent Arkansas, the one on the lower right is a translucent Arkansas slip stone.

The soft is 8X3X1, the hard is 10X3X1 and the black is 8X3X1/2".

All but the dark translucent came from Dan's Whetstones. The dark translucent was purchased at a gem and mineral show for $1.

The soft is quick to turn a burr but doesn't feel as aggressive as my Washita stones.

The translucent slip stone feels a bit more aggressive than the black bench stone. The dark translucent seems to be the least aggressive of all the Arkansas stones. My jasper honing stones are even less aggressive.

The dark translucent has seen a lot of action so it isn't as aggressive as it used to be. The slipstone has seen a lot of work, mostly on gouges and molding plane blades.

It is about time to clean up the bench that holds my oilstones and maybe build a box to hold all the small slipstones and such.

Of course this is only my opinion based upon how a couple of new stones feel.

As always, YMMV!!!.png

jtk