billiard chair / thru motise question

[Bill Carey]

The Stickley billiard chair is coming along. Some pics are attached. My question is concerning how you guys and gals layout the thru mortise for the arms. I took great pains in laying out the mortises and tenons for the chair and it all fit together well. My first glue up that didn't explode in chaos when I opened the glue bottle. But when it came time to make the thru mortises for the arms, I got cold feet about relying simply on layout numbers because the back of the arm fits into a shallow mortise and needs to be cut at 4 degrees or so to butt against the back leg, and I just didn't feel comfortable using numbers. So I made the fit at the back of the arm, and traced the tenon on the underside of the arm, used the mortise machine to hog out most of the waste, and then pared the sides to the lines at a slight inward angle and did a test fit and pared, a test fit and pared, etc etc until it fit. Just curious how you go about something like this.
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[Von Bickley]

Looks like beautiful wood and great craftsmanship.

[Bob Lang]

If it were easy, anybody could do it. For stuff like this I avoid numbers and layout the joint from the adjacent parts. You did what I would do. I usually carry the layout lines around to the show face and cut down from the top. I think it's like detective work to determine where to remove material. As the fit gets close I scribble pencil lines on the tenon between test fits; where the lines smear is where it is hanging up. Takes several tests fits most of the time to sneak up on it. The good thing about through mortises is that it doesn't really matter what the interior of the joint looks like as long as the show surface is tight.

Bob Lang

[David Utterback]

Looks like a great project. Will you make another for the challenger?

The joints look great and your approach is sound. I am currently working on mortise and tenons for the back legs of a pair of chairs with carved wooden seats. The mortise will be hidden and attached with glue and a long screw. The front of the leg is tapered about 2 1/2 degrees to the seat surface. The edge of the leg to seat joint will show and the rest of the shoulder will be fussed over with chisels to get a solid fit.

I try to stay away from the shoulder edge to prevent slight damage to the surface grain. Did you have any problems with protecting that edge as you pared away?

[Bill Carey]

If it were easy, anybody could do it. For stuff like this I avoid numbers and layout the joint from the adjacent parts. You did what I would do. I usually carry the layout lines around to the show face and cut down from the top. I think it's like detective work to determine where to remove material. As the fit gets close I scribble pencil lines on the tenon between test fits; where the lines smear is where it is hanging up. Takes several tests fits most of the time to sneak up on it. The good thing about through mortises is that it doesn't really matter what the interior of the joint looks like as long as the show surface is tight.

Bob Lang

The final fitting was done from the top. What I did was get it close, and then put a flash light below to see the gap - also used the pencil trick you mentioned - and did the final fitting from the top. And ya, the inside wasn't very pretty. Your plans, btw, are excellent. Just enough detail without giving away the farm - your plans showed me where to go, how I traveled was my choice. Appreciate your effort in putting together plans like that. Well done.

[Bill Carey]

Looks like a great project. Will you make another for the challenger?

The joints look great and your approach is sound. I am currently working on mortise and tenons for the back legs of a pair of chairs with carved wooden seats. The mortise will be hidden and attached with glue and a long screw. The front of the leg is tapered about 2 1/2 degrees to the seat surface. The edge of the leg to seat joint will show and the rest of the shoulder will be fussed over with chisels to get a solid fit.

I try to stay away from the shoulder edge to prevent slight damage to the surface grain. Did you have any problems with protecting that edge as you pared away?

This chair is for the challenger. I don't miss much so I wanted them to be comfortable, and make it easier for them to write that big check.

And I did have to take a care when making the final push of the arm onto the tenon. It started to raise the grain a bit so I chamfered the edges of the tenon first. Made it safer but still required care.

[William Hodge]

With two identical parts, like sash rails or stiles, I lay out the mortises on one face of both parts. I then flip one, and carry the lines across. This method requires a good zero point, and having the pieces be square to each other. I butt them up to a square framing square screwed to a bench. With through tenons on doors, the tenon ends get rounded a bit during assembly. That's where wedges come in.

[Bob Lang]

The final fitting was done from the top. What I did was get it close, and then put a flash light below to see the gap - also used the pencil trick you mentioned - and did the final fitting from the top. And ya, the inside wasn't very pretty. Your plans, btw, are excellent. Just enough detail without giving away the farm - your plans showed me where to go, how I traveled was my choice. Appreciate your effort in putting together plans like that. Well done.

Thanks Bill, I try to do my best.

Bob Lang

[Bill Carey]

Finally got the seat back from Tom the upholstery guy. All that's left to do is trim the wedges I used on the thru tenon at the arms, and allow my pool victim to get comfortable.
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[Bob Lang]

Well done!

Bob Lang

[William Chain]

Looks wonderful. Could I ask for details on your finish? Stain or dye? Poly? I should be so lucky to achieve that finish and color.

[Frederick Skelly]

Very nice Bill! That's one to be proud of.
Fred

[Bill Carey]

Thanks for the kind words, gents.
Bob - just started the Stickley 962 - after which I think I'll build my own stuff. Nice book.

William Chain: here's the finish regimen: Varathane Dark Walnut gel stain, on and off, then sanded to 320; 2 coats of Amber Zinnser Shellac, scuffed between coast with purple 3M pad, 2 coats of 1lb dewaxed blonde shellac (Wellermart), scuffed, then about 12 coats of wipe on poly sanded to 320 between coats. Everything was put on with pads - no brushes. (this chair only has 6 coats of WOP)

[William Chain]

Thank you.

I have new cans of both the regular and the 'fast dry' varathane dark walnut oil-based stain. Is the composition the same except for thickness relative to the gel stain?

here's the finish regimen: Varathane Dark Walnut gel stain, on and off, then sanded to 320; 2 coats of Amber Zinnser Shellac, scuffed between coast with purple 3M pad, 2 coats of 1lb dewaxed blonde shellac (Wellermart), scuffed, then about 12 coats of wipe on poly sanded to 320 between coats. Everything was put on with pads - no brushes. (this chair only has 6 coats of WOP)

[Bill Carey]

Thank you.

I have new cans of both the regular and the 'fast dry' varathane dark walnut oil-based stain. Is the composition the same except for thickness relative to the gel stain?

Don't the answer to that. I just checked and what I used is dark walnut gel number 469. I've not used the fast dry so not sure how the colors match up. I just find it a lot easier to work with the gel stain.