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Thread: The Hall of the Mountain King

  1. #91
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Woodstock, VA
    Posts
    757
    Thomas,

    If your DC ductwork will live near the HVAC I'd plan it now so that none of the pipe crosses. Or run DC down one wall with branches running within joists.

    I'll second Jim's recommendation to keep the jointer and planer together. In my shop I have a 'triangle' of the jointer, planer, and big bandsaw. Infeed and outfeed for all three point at open spaces between other machines/benches.

    Really love your project!

  2. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Bartley View Post
    Thomas,

    If your DC ductwork will live near the HVAC I'd plan it now so that none of the pipe crosses. Or run DC down one wall with branches running within joists.

    I'll second Jim's recommendation to keep the jointer and planer together. In my shop I have a 'triangle' of the jointer, planer, and big bandsaw. Infeed and outfeed for all three point at open spaces between other machines/benches.

    Really love your project!
    Thanks Jeff. It is turning out even better than I hoped. I am still working on dust collector duct design. The HVAC is already in and has conventional tree and branches layout.. The runs will have to cross but I have a lot of height in the basement. It will be ok.
    Last edited by Thomas Wilson; 06-26-2019 at 9:59 AM.

  3. #93
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    49,038
    How often will you need to process things that are 14' long? "Stationary" tools can still have mobility kits on them so you can deal with the rare, but important one-time "weird" project. Otherwise, an arrangement that supports most normal workflow lets your shop be more versatile. Subjective, I know...but being able to easily bounce between machines during the process effortlessly and automagically is a really nice thing!
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  4. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    How often will you need to process things that are 14' long? "Stationary" tools can still have mobility kits on them so you can deal with the rare, but important one-time "weird" project. Otherwise, an arrangement that supports most normal workflow lets your shop be more versatile. Subjective, I know...but being able to easily bounce between machines during the process effortlessly and automagically is a really nice thing!
    It is pretty common for me. Custom moldings for windows and doors, molding for the top of long run of built-in cabinets. I make molding a lot. Fourteen feet is longish for me but it happens. I think I will have a shop where I can make it easy so I am planning for it. I made a two-router router table on 16' 2x6 rails with rollers when I made the molding for the log house. I set up the molding operation in the main room of the house before it was finished. I had plenty of room. When I did a chapel at my church, I used the same setup in a hallway of the classroom building. I was done in a day and saved a ton of money.

    I have not had much time to work on the layout again, but I will work on this weekend. My dust collection layout is on the critical path now. We have to have the fire rated sheet rock before final inspection. The ductwork will have to be enclosed above the fire rated sheetrock. My plan to work with the dust collector as a portable collector on the main level will not be permitted. The inspector won't let me move tools in until I have the final inspection. Bummer. I have never had a central dust collector or anything like an efficiently designed work space so I feel ill prepared to cut holes in the floor without even trying out the layout first.

    I have to get busy on a duct order. Good progress this week. I will post some pictures.

    TW

    TW

    TW

  5. #95
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    49,038
    Kewel...if that "long" work is relatively frequent, then that work flow is darn important!
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  6. #96
    Lots of progress. I will keep this short because my internet is unreliable. I think that may be causing me to lose text after I have entered it.

    The framing is almost finished. Screened porch is up and under roof. Exterior windows and doors have been installed. The rafters for the front porch are up and decking is being added today. I am hoping this can be completed today but we may run out of 2x6 T&G for the roof decking. The front porch is the last thing before the shingles can go on.

    The mechanical systems have made good progress. The plumbing rough-in is done, the electrical is well started (the electricians disappeared yesterday and did not show today either.) The electrician has to finish up light and switch boxes and the panels. We will have 400 amp service, two 200 amp panels. The electrician seems not to be able to follow his own markings. There are half a dozen mistakes so far.

    The chimney is framed. By my measurement, it is smaller than the fireplace insert. I don't know what will happen there.

    We ordered the Hardie siding and other materials for the exterior. I like all the suppliers that the contractor uses. They are super knowledgable and fast.

    The next month will be hectic.

    Here are the pics

    Standard view from the driveway
    StandardViewWeek15.jpg

    Outlets, lots of outlets
    OutletsLotsofOutlets.jpg

    The screened porch also known as the Green Room or the Horse Shed. Something like that
    TheGreenRoom.jpg
    From the opposite corner
    ScreenPorchFromBackCorner.jpg


    Chimney outside
    TheChimney.jpg

    The front porch. It was added just for looks but has been and continues to be a huge pain to get ready for roof. The verdict is in. They need 20 more 2x6's. No roof next week.
    FrontPorch.jpg

  7. #97

    Week 19

    Hi Folks,

    The shop has continued to make progress. I have tried to update but every time, my upload fails and I lose my post. I only allocate a few minutes a day to online stuff so I just skip the update if it does not go the first time. The problem must be my satellite internet connection. In a rural area, satellite is the only choice but it is not a reliable way to upload anything very long like a few pictures.

    Anyway, a lot has happened. We did finally get the front porch decked and roofed but not before we got torrential amounts of rain. The main roof's overhang was cut away to make room for the front porch rafter. The gap let rain coming down the roof into house like a water feature at Dollywood. The main floor and basement were flooded. We had several frog choker rains before the valley was sealed and the shingles were installed to get the shop dried in. Even before the front porch problem, rain had been coming through the synthetic felt. Apparently, the staples just cut holes in the felt as it sits in the sun for a few weeks. I swept water and wet vacuumed. I bought some big ventilation fans which have been running day and night but drying out has been slow with the high summer humidity. I have monitored the moisture content of the subfloor and sill plates with a pin type moisture meter. We started at beyond saturation. It is down to around 20% over most of the floor. I want to get to 12-14% before we move ahead with interior finishing but it is slow. Lots of the plywood subfloor has delaminated. I regret that but not much could be done about the afternoon rainshower pattern that is typical of East Tennessee. You just have to expect things to get wet.

    Standard end wall view. The exterior Hardie siding has made good progress. The color the siding or trim is not the final. It is just the manufacturer's primer color. Still looks pretty good. I wanted a shingle ledge across the gable ends. which you can see. Hardie shakes will be used above the ledge. We are having trouble getting the roofers back out to put shingles on the ledge. If the roofer's will come back, the siding should be completed this week. Painting, I hope, begins next week.
    EndWall.jpg

    Front view. I like the look of the scissor truss front despite the difficulty with the water. The roof looks good to me. The shingles are the first, actual finished, "color" to be added to the shop.
    Front.jpg

    Some less visible progress is significant. I have contracted with an insulation guy to "flash and batt" the wall system. "Flash" is applying a 1" of closed cell foam on the interior of the OSB sheathing, then "batt" is filling the rest of the wall space with standard fiberglass batts. I am holding him off until moisture is under control.

    The rough inspection has been completed. This covers framing, rough wiring and plumbing, and all the stuff that you need to have inspected the interior goes on. We are clear to proceed.

    I was planning to use T1-11 1/2" exterior plywood for the interior walls. Apparently, something is going on with the manufacture of this plywood. A month or two ago I looked in the big box stores for the siding and I decided on 1/2. Both blue and orange boxes had it in stock.. Now, neither has it. They still have 5/8" and 3/8". The 5/8" would not slide behind the timber frame. I will probably just go with 3/8". The goal was to have something rugged looking that would allow tool hangers to be directly mounted. 1/2" would have been better. The other alternative is drywall. My gap behind the timber frame is not consistent enough for 1/2" drywall to slide in easily. Drywall does not like being coaxed with a hammer. I am still debating about the interior finish of the plywood and beams. Does anyone know about Heritage Natural Finishes? It is an oil and varnish finish but they use citrus solvent. It supposedly smells like an orange popsicle.

    Here is the 5/8" sheet that doesn't fit.
    T1-11WontFit.jpg

    I have framed a closet for the dust collector in the basement. It is 38" x 60" interior dimensions. The contractor insisted on a drop ceiling for fire code compliance. It is going to make dust collector duct installation difficult. Fire code has gotten a lot stricter in recent years. Getting a fire rated ceiling in the basement is making my basement ductwork and floor electrical outlets difficult.

    DustCloset.jpg

    On the duct work, I did flow calculations for my planned duct design. Even with a smallish collector (Oneida Portable Dust Gorilla), I get more than 500 CFM to the longest runs. The table saw and planer are calculated at 630 and 650 respectively. I am going to order some duct work based on that.

    I contracted with a local guy to make man-made (lick-and-stick) stone for the foundation. It is will look more or less like dry-laid ledger stone. We wanted natural looking native stone colors. It will be a pretty bland mixture of brownish and tannish with some charcoal and reddish tints. Stone work is scheduled for 3 weeks from now. I have driven around the area looking at this guy's work. It is good. Pictures will be forthcoming when he gets something up.
    Last edited by Thomas Wilson; 08-06-2019 at 7:09 PM.

  8. #98
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Colorado Springs
    Posts
    241
    Try your local lumber yard for T1-11. Plus if they have it you might get a better price plus free delivery to the job site. Also look at Smartside 7/16”. It’s what I used and I got a price at my yard that was nearly as good.

  9. #99
    All the framing materials, other than the timber frame itself, have come from Kash and Karry. It is a locally owned building supply company, one of the last in this area. Service is key to survival. They even sent their piggy back forklift to help unload 2x6 T&G that I had to get from the timber frame company. The owner mans the order desk. Materials are stored in various sheds around several non-contiguous lots in downtown La Follette. It is like stepping into a time machine. He can get 3/8 or 5/8 T1-11, just like the box stores. I will order 3/8 from him when the time comes. It is just easier to see the product in person and check availability online from the box stores. I have confirmed that 1/2 was discontinued some time last year. Stock that I saw a few months ago was just the last remaining in stores.

  10. #100
    Hi Folks,

    The biggest activity was foam insulation on the inside of the exterior sheathing. I was expecting a thicker layer but obviously that would have cost more. They were pretty thorough and amazingly neat with the foam. The beams and floor were masked with plastic sheeting.

    Foam1.jpgFoam2.jpg
    The goal of the foam is to keep the critters out and reduce air infiltration into the insulated space. It is only an 1" or so thick so it does not insulate much. They will come on Monday to add the fiberglass batts. We have 5 1/2 in walls so it is well insulated.

    The siding is almost done but is on hold at the moment because they ran out of some siding that they needed. I am eager to see the paint on the house. I added some greener colors to my color model for comparison. I think we will go with something greener rather than the color I showed earlier.

    The floors are drying out very slowly. Humidity is just so high that we are only reducing moisture content a few per cent per week. When I push the pins of my moisture meter deep into the sub floor I still get readings of 23-24% in the areas that got the wettest. I wonder if I should seal up the garage door opening in the basement and bring in some dehumidifiers to get to a point where hardwood floors can be installed. A 29 gal per day dehumidifier is $280 a week.

    Need to talk to the builder about interior finish. I have a book about Greene and Greene houses. I saw some handrail designs that I liked. I doubt his carpenter would want to try doing one of those but I may do it myself.

    Scan 15.jpegScan 16.jpegScan 17.jpg
    Last edited by Thomas Wilson; 08-11-2019 at 2:28 PM.

  11. #101
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    49,038
    If that's closed cell foam insulation, it's about R7.5 per inch. So don't underestimate the insulation value it adds to your building, especially as both insulation and as a vapor/air infiltration barrier. So if those are nominal 4" walls, you'll end up with about R22 combined with R15 batts and if they are nominal 6" walls, you'll end up with almost R30 using R20 batts.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  12. #102
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Lake Gaston, Henrico, NC
    Posts
    3,907
    Price dehumidifiers, and you might as well buy one, as pay 280 a week for one. Several years ago, I bought one from Home Depot for a little less than 300. I didn't have the right length hose for the drain, so I left it running while we went back to town for a couple of things. While we were gone, in a couple of hours, the gallon tank on it had filled up, cutting the machine off.

  13. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom M King View Post
    Price dehumidifiers, and you might as well buy one, as pay 280 a week for one. Several years ago, I bought one from Home Depot for a little less than 300. I didn't have the right length hose for the drain, so I left it running while we went back to town for a couple of things. While we were gone, in a couple of hours, the gallon tank on it had filled up, cutting the machine off.
    I have two Hisense 70 pint per day dehumidifiers at my lake house down the street. Converting to gallons, that is 17.5 gal/day for the two combined. They do fill the tank up pretty fast., but have mine connected to condensate pumps. I am going to talk to the flooring guy tomorrow about what he would do.

    No one around here has seen a moisture meter before.

  14. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    If that's closed cell foam insulation, it's about R7.5 per inch. So don't underestimate the insulation value it adds to your building, especially as both insulation and as a vapor/air infiltration barrier. So if those are nominal 4" walls, you'll end up with about R22 combined with R15 batts and if they are nominal 6" walls, you'll end up with almost R30 using R20 batts.
    Looks like a pretty thin layer of foam, .5 1o 1". It is for air infiltration mostly and I am hoping it will do well on keeping out lady bugs and wasps. My log house just welcomes those species into the house in the spring. The walls are 2x6 and the windows and doors are Pella 850 model. It is well insulated.

    TW

  15. #105
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    49,038
    Air and moisture barrier...yes. Bugs...maybe. It's easy to chew...
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

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