Page 2 of 10 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 147

Thread: What is a subscriber based forum?

  1. #16
    The same questions do get asked , but we have to consider a lot of the answers change and improve. Sample: "that's why
    I stopped using brand X and changed over to Mighty Good !!

  2. #17
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    N Illinois
    Posts
    4,602
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    Bill, in short, it will mean that folks who want to participate will subscribe to the forum by paying a small monthly or annual fee, depending on how Keith decides to set things up. With advertising revenue tanking due to ad-blocking and other factors, and so many folks not being willing to voluntarily contribute a tiny sum of money to support this great resource (the ask has been a mere six bucks a year), the model has to change to insure that things can continue into the future and provide folks with access to a wealth of knowledge that dates back to early 2003.
    Good summary Jim...
    Jerry

  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    While I absolutely agree that search functions on the current implementation of SMC...and quite frankly, pretty much every other forum I participate on...leave a lot to be desired, the primary reason that the same questions get asked over and over again is merely human behavior. Folks just don't search. It's always been that way and I seriously doubt it will change anytime soon.
    Y'all are using vBulletin. Another site that uses vBulletin is avsforum.com, and you should check that out, because the (default!) Search function there is fantastic. The whole thing is really well configured, there's a lot to be learned from how they set things up in general. And they appear to be making money.

    vBulletin is based on MySQL, so we're not just searching flat files. Oh for the days when you could just write a grep script. I used to do a lot of work with the SQL variants, and I'd been meaning to download a copy of vBulletin and play around with it, but I have many projects to balance, some of which put money in my pocket. One of the things about avsforum.com is that there's not a lot of repetition in the threads. Coincidence with the vastly better Search function? Possibly. There's also a lot of "thread continuity" (you'll see what I mean.)

    Before killing off SMC by restricting to paying members only, first IMO you should give people a taste of what is actually IN the forum, by fixing the Search function at least. Then after they understand that, you can restrict them by time limits or whatever. I would hate to see SMC disappear, along with all its historical content. There is a path here.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    65,685
    Doug, SMC is migrating to Xenforo in "the recent future". vBulletin has become untenable and difficult to keep sane for some time now as Keith has mentioned quite a few times. The conversion delay has simply been because of resource availability.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Hayes, Virginia
    Posts
    14,760
    Several years ago we addressed the internal search engine problem here. Aaron Koehl wrote an excellent search utility that everyone liked and each Member could customize their own search features. Months later vBulletin changed their coding when they issued an update and Aaron's work was erased. The programmers at vBulletin have done this many times so we just stopped making any custom changes. We have to install their security updates given their track record. We also have to adjust our custom banner rotation program with almost every update, this is not an option.

  6. #21
    This place is not a “friendly” place to newcomers. It has all the forum resident owner personalities that kill interaction. I will not subscribe.

    Thomas

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Wilson View Post
    This place is not a “friendly” place to newcomers. It has all the forum resident owner personalities that kill interaction. I will not subscribe.

    Thomas
    I respect your choice. As you said, SMC does have "personalities", just like every internet forum I've seen. That's what the "ignore" button is for. But most of us go out of our way to help newcomers, so I'm not sure where you're coming from there. (Certainly, as a 6 year member you aren't quite a newcomer.) Today was a double shift and I'm tired/grumpy. So I apologize up front for being abrasive. But the tone of your post kinda rubbed me wrong and it made me want to ask the obvious question: If our "resident personalities" are so awful, why do you bother? ........ I'll bet it's because you get something of value from reading SMC's content. Which is the whole idea, Tom.

    I hope you'll change your mind and stay with us.

    Fred
    Last edited by Frederick Skelly; 03-26-2019 at 11:05 PM.
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

    “If you want to know what a man's like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals.”

  8. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Wilson View Post
    This place is not a “friendly” place to newcomers. It has all the forum resident owner personalities that kill interaction. I will not subscribe.

    Thomas
    I'm an educator at two different woodworking schools... And occasionally I tried to contribute( non-monetary) information for the greater good. I've used this forum as an educational reference to struggling students with Financial restrictions. I've even sourced some of the university and colleges resources pro bono with my time to help other members and contributors. Recently my personal message account between members was disabled due to funding restrictions. This forum is a private enterprise designed to generate an income. I bless it all the best with enforcing monetary fees. I personally feel this forum can be a highly revenue generating gentleman's club with elite members.

    I guess when all the old school dovetail & box joint hand tool guys, that just want to pass on training for free, this will not be the forum. Time will tell.

    Choke free contributing information on me once, shame on me on me! Choke free contributing information on me twice, shame on you!

    Welcome to the PGA.
    Last edited by Matt Mattingley; 03-27-2019 at 12:26 AM.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    65,685
    So I ask you this, Matt...you've clearly found this forum community to be of value in both passing on information as well as being a resources for your students. Why would you note want to help insure it's financially able to stay online? Advertising no longer cuts it as has been clearly stated and neither has the ask for voluntary $6 a year contributions. That's a cup or two of coffee in today's world. What else is there other than a subscription model if participants will not voluntarily support this resource?
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Hayes, Virginia
    Posts
    14,760
    It makes no sense to punish the masses for the sins of a few.

    For the record we have a pretty good track record of dealing with unfriendly behavior here when its reported.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Helensburgh, Australia
    Posts
    2,700
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    So I ask you this, Matt...you've clearly found this forum community to be of value in both passing on information as well as being a resources for your students. Why would you note want to help insure it's financially able to stay online? Advertising no longer cuts it as has been clearly stated and neither has the ask for voluntary $6 a year contributions. That's a cup or two of coffee in today's world. What else is there other than a subscription model if participants will not voluntarily support this resource?
    There has to be a reason the vast majority do not see it that way, have you guys worked out why that is? This is a business, a business also pays for product to keep the doors open which when the contributers here supply the product this business is getting a free ride in essence as it does not pay for the knowledge published here. You guys are about to limit the free flow of knowledge that keeps this place afloat and at the same time not pay for the content which flows through here. You can push the two cups of coffee adage all day long, it does not stack up in any way. it is probable that what is happening to fora world wide is a sign that they will become non existent as did newsgroups that preceded them. Take some of the stupid rules away and some more people may become contributers but not me why those rules are in play.
    Chris

    Everything I like is either illegal, immoral or fattening

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Hayes, Virginia
    Posts
    14,760
    If hosting an online forum is not free how can it be provided for free?
    I have to sign contracts every few years with my bandwidth provider for a commercial connection that is quite expensive and pay monthly fees for IP addresses.
    I have to purchase software upgrades.
    I have to purchase new servers and other network hardware periodically.
    I have to pay a server administrator.
    I have to have business insurance, an office, a work computer, cell phone service, etc.
    We consume electricity for heating and air conditioning, mostly air conditioning since the network hardware requires cooling well into January. In fact I have two independent cooling systems, one is a backup.
    I spend several hours per day seven days per week working here plus a marketing effort during the week, however marketing is beginning to be a waste of time.
    A 6 dollar annual donation doesn't all end up in our pockets since PayPal gets their portion, then state and federal taxes plus all of the costs listed above.
    While I was responding to this thread six new accounts had to be reviewed out of 124 today and I received ten emails and four private messages.

    If your going to leave us because of the upcoming changes please do it quietly.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    N Illinois
    Posts
    4,602

    thoughts

    There are two old and simple words of wisdom:

    1. There are no "free lunches" and
    2. If you don't like something , don't go there or use it.

    At risk of being blunt or harsh, there are very few things in today's rapidly changing world that are free..Simply put, someone has to pay the bills to keep the resource going and available.

    I personally would be willing to contribute "extra" (over $6) as needed to keep the ship afloat.
    If one does not wish to contribute, then they should not be allowed to enter/use the site.

    If I owned a retail store giving away free goods every day, I still would have bills, overhead. I would expect those benefiting from free goods to occasionally "help pay these bills". Or I would have to close the store.

    Just my opinion and thoughts...
    Jerry

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Helensburgh, Australia
    Posts
    2,700
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Olexa View Post
    There are two old and simple words of wisdom:

    1. There are no "free lunches" and
    That is so right, so if a contributer provides content for a forum that is a business as this is why should he do that so the business can get paid when that business obtained the content for free? To pay the business an access fe then contribute with no reward is equally bonkers. making a forum a paying business is distorting what the concept of fora has historically been but that detail seems to have escaped form the cage.

    Thanks for the answer keith but you addressed none of the points I raised.
    Chris

    Everything I like is either illegal, immoral or fattening

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lewiston, Idaho
    Posts
    28,504
    Chris,

    I'd suggest the value claimed for contributing posts is self-perceived, subjective and often grossly over-inflated.

    To me, it seems the "vast majority" don't financially contribute because they mistakenly view websites like the Creek as "free" but the reality is the Creek exists in the upstairs air conditioned room above Keith's shop behind his rural home in Virginia. Nothing, online or otherwise, is free. Somebody has to pay the bills. With an economic downturn, the arrival of advertisement blocking software, the income for a lot of websites decreased dramatically.Further, Keith, Jackie and Aaron are burdened with the same millstone around their necks that dairy farmers are. They have to be available 24 hours a day, 365 days a week. While the dairy farmers cattle requires attendance morning and night, so do the servers for the Creek.

    In my view, the real value to the Creek is in the civil attitude in which it operates as outlined in the Terms Of Service and enforced by the invited, volunteer Moderators. The Creek exists on hardware provided by Keith and Jackie, administered by Keith and Jackie and operating expenses which are paid by Keith and Jackie. In the past, Keith has already had one business go defunct as a result of financially supporting the Creek. What seems to me is that a vast majority don't realize, or appreciate the value of Keith, Jackie and Aaron for what they have done over the last 16 years to merely provide a place for the rest of us to congregate, to share information about common interests related to woodworking.

    Within any group of people the size of the Creek's membership, there will always be a few malcontents who don't want to play by the rules they agreed to abide when they registered. That's just the reality of gathering humans together. Until you personally have been the recipient of the profane attacks, public and private, by some former members you will not appreciate the abuse the Moderators and Administrators endure periodically.

    Keep this in mind. If Keith, Jackie and Aaron didn't provide the Creek, we wouldn't have this place to share information, there wouldn't be any posts for those members who like to claim as their valued contributions to the woodworking community.

    As Keith has already stated, when he makes his final decision, the Creek will or will not survive and if it doesn't? It's not life or death. it is/was merely a group of woodworking related forums that operates/operated in a civil manner for the exchange of information between all levels of woodworkers.
    Last edited by Ken Fitzgerald; 03-27-2019 at 11:18 PM.
    Ken

    So much to learn, so little time.....

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •