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Thread: What is a subscriber based forum?

  1. #136
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Hayes, Virginia
    Posts
    14,760
    If we give people a 3 month free trial the majority will just register with a new username every 3 months.

    Lets not forget that there will be some very nice benefits for everyone once we are a subscription based Community. Its not cast in stone that free access will never come back if at some point we can begin to attract more advertisers like we have in the past. I will also remind everyone that SawMill Creek has always been different from all the other woodworking forums and it never seemed to hinder our Community in any way. In fact most will agree that the rules of the road here are why they registered and remain active.

    The policy still remains that if any Member in good standing here contacts me and lets me know the name of anyone who cannot afford to pay for our service I will provide them with free access.

  2. #137
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    mid-coast Maine and deep space
    Posts
    2,656
    No argument from me Keith. I know you have considered this every which way. My "suggestions" cannot possibly offer anything new that you haven't already dismissed for one reason or another. SawMill Creek is definitely unique in so many good ways and so, as I already have stated - A TREASURE.

    Thanks very much.

    Sam
    "... for when we become in heart completely poor, we at once are the treasurers & disbursers of enormous riches."
    WQJudge

  3. #138
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lewiston, Idaho
    Posts
    28,504
    Keith, a funny thought just struck me. In the future, people will have to pay to publicly disparage you here at SMC.
    Last edited by Ken Fitzgerald; 05-05-2019 at 6:32 PM.
    Ken

    So much to learn, so little time.....

  4. #139
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Albany, NY
    Posts
    68
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Outten View Post
    If we give people a 3 month free trial the majority will just register with a new username every 3 months.
    And if you don’t have something like this, there will not be any new members. Presumably, no one will ever find SMC through a search engine either, so how do you get new members in this case? I just really don’t see how SMC survives after this change.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Outten View Post
    Lets not forget that there will be some very nice benefits for everyone once we are a subscription based Community.
    What are these benefits?

  5. #140
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Edmonton, Canada
    Posts
    2,479
    Have been a member here for years. Been a contributer in the past and have no problem paying again (has been a lack of attention to keep it). Appreciate all the work and time and $ owners and admin have put into this. It has been a great place to share ideas and teach and learn.
    My only concern is that it might not be as lively as it is, going down the path it is going. If the size of contributers is about 25% and if the share of knowledgeable members is the same it would be terrible to loose 3/4 of quality of information beeing shared.

  6. #141
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Hayes, Virginia
    Posts
    14,760
    Ken, your right and that is just one of the new benefits but its a shame that one will not be enjoyed by all

    Mreza, if just 50% of our Community remains here that is a pretty large number of people. I can guess that at least 25% of our Members have never participated in any discussion here so the net loss is about 25% of our active Members.

    We may be able to create a Grand Tour Forum that would provide an opportunity for people who are thinking about joining The Creek to view. I will also find the time to finish the Hall of Fame pages as we move forward.

    I don't have all the answers folks, its impossible to predict what will happen and when but I am positive that the overall impact will not be as bad as some might think. We made it through the economic fiasco of 2008 and I survived two heart attacks 5 years ago, how hard can it be to survive this conversion? There are massive numbers of very good people here, that and by the grace of God is why I am still here honoring the promise I made. We have also survived a number of legal challenges from lawyers and I can't count the number of days we just barely paid the bills. I've worn out at least two Windows computers one iMac and a dozen keyboards working here...I'm not going to give up on this Community until I am here all alone. Do a search on the phrase "Save The Creek" and you will find out how bad it has been in the past
    .
    Last edited by Keith Outten; 05-06-2019 at 1:24 PM.

  7. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Murdoch View Post
    Matt Mattingley, I applaud your giving of yourself to your community but alas, you have made it abundantly clear that you are unhappy with the direction that this community is taking. Rather than adding your attitude snipe to every thread you post in (3 this morning, that I have read) about all the other "free" woodworking web sites available - please just set yourself free and go away. Why do you continue here feeling as you do?

    As for "members" not being able to afford 50˘ a month or even $2.00 a month to become full fledged contributors and keep this TREASURE of a woodworking resource available simply does not pass the straight face test. No one who can afford to be in woodworking or other tool based crafts, as a hobby - let alone a business, can say with a straight face that they can't swing an extra 50˘ per month for the invaluable TOOL that is Sawmill Creek.

    The only pass I might give would be to legitimate students of the trades. Everyone here could choose, if they cared, to be a contributor without making compromise to their economic status. We make these and compromises every day. I have been through bankruptcy so you don't need to tell me about financial struggles. I have not been homeless and I have not been truly unemployed (since my early 20s) though I know and see this reality around me everyday. These are not the people who are on Sawmill Creek being asked to send in their 50˘. A two or three month free trial period would be logical but after that becoming a contributor, seems to me just as logical.

    Sam
    Just go away, is somewhat harsh. We call this at school bullying.

    Sam, you are a gentleman. Different strokes for different folks. This community can go where ever it wants to go and all can support it. I would make a 4 times donation if this accompanied my students a two-year unlimited access revolving. Indirectly I would pay for myself and 80 students. I will hold my breath and not change my mind one way or another.... until the hammer has come down. Everything I have read and contributors which support they do not support the up-and-coming who can’t afford under educational purposes.

    I encourage students to find projects and entice them to certain websites that will be helpful to them today and in their future. Some of my students are homeless and on social services. You can poke at a homeless person all you want… some years I am trying to teach about 20 of these and get them off the street.... your priorities are yours and mine are mine.

    Some can potshot me any day. Good on you!
    Last edited by Matt Mattingley; 05-09-2019 at 1:07 AM.

  8. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Mattingley View Post
    Just go away, is somewhat harsh. We call this at school bullying.

    Sam, you are a gentleman. Different strokes for different folks. This community can go where ever it wants to go and all can support it. I would make a 4 times donation if this accompanied my students a two-year unlimited access revolving. Indirectly I would pay for myself and 80 students. I will hold my breath and not change my mind one way or another.... until the hammer has come down. Everything I have read and contributors which support they do not support the up-and-coming who can’t afford under educational purposes.

    I encourage students to find projects and entice them to certain websites that will be helpful to them today and in their future. Some of my students are homeless and on social services. You can poke at a homeless person all you want… some years I am trying to teach about 20 of these and get them off the street.... your priorities are yours and mine are mine.

    Some can potshot me any day. Good on you!
    Matt,
    In my opinion, Sam's post is not about your kids in any way. It is not about school bullying. It is about your personal, continuous, emotional outbursts on the topic of paying to participate here, and his personal reaction to it. You have vomited emotion on me and several others lately.

    Im glad you were able to retire in your 40's and I hope that was under happy financial circumstances. I'm glad you've devoted your time to something so important and meaningful. But I do not understand why you keep raising your kids in every argument about this topic. I cant recall anyone questioning or criticizing you about the amazing efforts you're making to help them. So why not drop that line of argument for the duration? If you need a scholarship for you and/or your kids, Keith has said he does such things. Or several of us could probably kick-in to cover that. I will.

    Choose to stay or not as you see fit. But stop it man. We get that you don't like what's coming.

    Fred Skelly
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

    “If you want to know what a man's like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals.”

  9. #144
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    65,675
    Matt, I will add that I believe you could easily work our a Contributor arrangement to provide full access to your students directly with Kieth. Have you asked him privately about that?
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  10. #145
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Yorktown, VA
    Posts
    422
    Matt,

    Not sure why you are so set on this specific woodworking website. Is it a great website, yes..is it a great resource, yes...are there good people here...yes. But this is also true for dozens of other websites/blogs.

    I just did a google search "Woodworking Websites" and it popped up links to hundreds of blogs and free websites and in fact the most comprehensive tutorial website on the planet is YT.

    I personally visit 6-7 other websites daily during my lunch break and spend time on YT on free nights and weekends to research woodworking questions/issues/methods and for entertainment.

    So why push against this one website when it only really represents less than 1 percent of the woodworking wealth of information on the web?

    I could post the links to the top 75 woodworking blogs (google it you will find it in the top three listings), the other websites I visit and various manufacturer's website I get my WW info and entertainment from but it would violate TOS posting those links.

    As a non profit I would think you would be fiscally prudent and seek out all the free woodworking resources on the web, and more focused sites (turners, Neander's, laser) for your students benefit.

    Once your students move on they may not continue to get the umbrella of protection you would like to provide them by asking a site to provide them with free access.

    I would think it would be better to encourage them learn how to search and find web resources that are within their means. That is life.



    Rob

  11. #146
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    mid-coast Maine and deep space
    Posts
    2,656
    Thank you Frederick - you represented my point very well. I too would be more than happy chip in extra for others to join the Creek as "contributors". Could sponsor 10 or a dozen other folks at $6.00 and would be most willing to do so.

    Sam
    "... for when we become in heart completely poor, we at once are the treasurers & disbursers of enormous riches."
    WQJudge

  12. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    Matt, I will add that I believe you could easily work our a Contributor arrangement to provide full access to your students directly with Kieth. Have you asked him privately about that?
    I haven't seen or heard Keith's marketing plan. How does he plan to entice new members? It's his business, both literally and figuratively, but FWIW I'd think a 'student' membership, good for the term of enrollment would be a great way to 'sell' SMC to new future members (now contributors). Or is that now memtributor? ...contriber?

    I'll let the smart guys figure out how to verify their student status.

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