Which Slider Miter Saw to buy?

[Simon MacGowen]

This is really makes it sound like you are a salesman. Exactly like one.
.

If I had sounded like a Festool salesman, I would have recommended the Kapex for carpentry and job site work.

How did I know one does not need a Kapex to do carpentry? Because I have seen good work done in homes (including mine) by trade people using anything but the Kapex. Good work done using Dewalt, Makita, Ridigd, etc. etc.

By the way, I did not say you can't use a Kapex for job site work...in fact, many trade people in the EU do.

Simon

[Chris Parks]

Motor/underpower issue? I have not experienced it...touching wood (and my saw is as old as, probably older than, Peter Parffit's). Simon

Simon, unfortunately you can't use that comparison as your saw is 110V and his is 240V and the failures are largely confined to the 110V machines from all reports.

[Brian Holcombe]

I could sense a degree of dissatisfaction or frustration from you with the Kapex, which of course can be due to many factors. Kapex is best known for its precision and accuracy (assuming proper calibration is checked or done by the users (again, Gary Katz has shown how to do that)) among other things (motor issue one of them!). There are many Kapex videos out there one can search about how good it cuts miters or angled pieces. Peter Parffit, a hobbyist, has done many videos and here is one I found:

https://youtu.be/FemIf5O0mXQ?t=208

Even though I have no images to share, please be assured that my Kapex performs as well as (if not better than) his in all aspects.

If you aren't getting good results, I recommend that you review Gary's videos AFTER checking that your saw's table and fences are flat, straight and square to each other (and of course that the blade cuts true). I have not come across any miter saw calibration method better than Gary's (Kapex was used in his calibration videos).

Simon

Simon,

Posting 'Be assured' doesn't show me what I want to see. This isn't for ego but for relative comparison. Every cut I made with a Kapex gapped anywhere from a negligible amount (for a small cut) to a few thousandths on wider cut (on both sides of the cut), that's enough to make a cut that doesn't look tight when it's glued and so it needed to be touched up with a shooting board. You can't tune that sort of deflection out of a saw. I could adjust it 90 degrees perfectly and the cut would still not meet all the way around on a piece of hardwood.

I show photos because I want to be able to compare notes, I'm not trying to reduce your enjoyment of the saw but to understand that when you say 'square' what are we actually talking about? That's something a picture shows, not words, at least not in this context.

Rework is expensive, it adds a process and that added time is wasteful. If something can come off the saw perfect than adding additional steps adds possible error and time related cost with no benefit to the end product (in fact probably worse, since a set dimension cannot be worked to).

Here's example in how I use the omga (for frames in this case) I'm taking sized stock to the saw, chopping end then chop to length. Use that to reference for joinery, then use the joinery to reference for squareness. I'm then gluing up the frames and I check one in the batch for squareness, it measures square to 1/64" (4' x 3' frame).

If I use a saw that is not accurate: then I must chop to length, followed by shooting to length, followed by comparison similar sizes. Then joinery, then double-checking the joinery for squareness then finally assembly and checking each frame.

If I'm not confident on a machine's abilities that means I have to stop what I'm doing and check things during the work, that's annoying is that any adjustment needing to be made means that a good number of things could be off and need to be reworked. At that point I either rework the entire set or split them off into to sizes. Best just to have something that works reliably.

[Simon MacGowen]

Simon, unfortunately you can't use that comparison as your saw is 110V and his is 240V and the failures are largely confined to the 110V machines from all reports.

May be I've missed your point Chris. Mine is indeed 110V, but if it is older than Peter's (240V), shouldn't it be a good thing that I have had no power or motor issue?

Over the festool forum, people speculated almost everything about the motor issue, but unfortunately, we still really know nothing. I wish we did, and then concluded one way or the other. There are people sitting on the fence, delaying to buy any Kapex as well as people saying their next miter saw would still be a Kapex even if theirs died. Like I say, don't buy the Kapex if one is worried about it. No reason to spend that much money on something that keeps you up at night.

Simon

[Simon MacGowen]

I show photos because I want to be able to compare notes, I'm not trying to reduce your enjoyment of the saw but to understand that when you say 'square' what are we actually talking about? That's something a picture shows, not words, at least not in this context.


If I use a saw that is not accurate: then I must chop to length, followed by shooting to length, followed by comparison similar sizes. Then joinery, then double-checking the joinery for squareness then finally assembly and checking each frame.

In Peter's video I linked in my last post, he made a square cut near the beginning, and checked it with his engineer's square. That's the kind of square cut I get from my Kapex. We also see at the beginning seconds of his desk video tight miters (top and at the skirt); that is also the kind of miter I get from my saw. According to Peter, he usually cuts miters using the bevel feature.

Peter did not say if he calibrated his Kapex when received new (probably not otherwise he would have done a video of it), I did -- both the miter and square cuts. Factory settings among different Kapexes can be spot on or could be off or even outside the tolerances. I knew my bevels from the factory were fantastic, and so I didn't do anything about it.

I am happy with my Kapex. Yours may perform not as well as mine, but you are not alone, because in the festool forum, we have seen similar stories shared for some identical tools or models. In fact, this kind of machine performance variations happens to almost all machines including tablesaws, bandsaws, automobiles, etc.

Simon

[Chris Parks]

May be I've missed your point Chris. Mine is indeed 110V, but if it is older than Peter's (240V), shouldn't it be a good thing that I have had no power or motor issue?

Over the festool forum, people speculated almost everything about the motor issue, but unfortunately, we still really know nothing. I wish we did, and then concluded one way or the other. There are people sitting on the fence, delaying to buy any Kapex as well as people saying their next miter saw would still be a Kapex even if theirs died. Like I say, don't buy the Kapex if one is worried about it. No reason to spend that much money on something that keeps you up at night.

Simon

i doubt you have missed the point, simply put 240V Kapex motors have a very low failure rate.

[Roger Feeley]

To all those Bosch Glide owners out there. I bought one of the first Glides and found that the base sagged in the middle by nearly .030". After trying several saws and even having two Bosch techs in my house, I wound up returning them for refund. In my view, it wasn't the saw but the shipping container. I think the boxes got dropped and the heavy head bent the base.

I wonder if you Glide owners could put a good straightedge across the base of your saw and see if there is a gap in the middle. I would still kind of like a Glide someday.

[Simon MacGowen]

T

put a good straightedge across the base of your saw and see if there is a gap in the middle.

Regardless of what miter saw is bought, that is the first thing a new owner should do. Do the same on the fence. Then check the bed and fence are square to each other from left to right. If they are out, you won't get any consistent or quality cuts. Return or exchange it if they can not be fixed.

Make sure you use a reliable straightedge and square.

Simon

[Andrew Hughes]

Here's mine its pretty flat on the round part.

[Andrew Hughes]

Here's a better pic with a view of my dust collector shroud made from lead.

[mark mcfarlane]

I've had a Kapex for 18 months. It is an order of magnitude better than the 40 year old Craftsman RAS that it replaced. Still, it struggles a little in 4/4 maple and really struggles in 6/4 maple or white oak on boards over a few inches wide. I frequently use the Kapex to rough cut 10-12' hardwood boards when they first enter the shop.

I won't comment on accuracy or repeatability, I need to go through a second setup using some of the excellent resources that Simon shared. I spent the first 18 months in my newly equipped retirement shop making furniture. Now I'm going back through each machine to see if I can improve their accuracy. Spending a few days fine tuning my sliding table saw has paid off, hopefully it will also on the Kapex. One of the first things I plan to do is pull the Kapex slightly (1-2mm) forward of my long, home made workstation fence, so the cuts register only on the Kapex fence.

Alan (OP), FWIW, if I was buying today, with what I know about the Kapex, I'd probably get a Bosch Glide. If I had purchased the Glide, I'd probably have a different set of complaints .

I've never heard anyone complain about their OMGA saw, but the price differential from a Glide is significant and the cross cut capacity is much smaller (no slide). I'm sure it is great for the final cut of a rail or style, but not useable for rough cutting 8 or 10" wide rough stock.

[Simon MacGowen]

One of the first things I plan to do is pull the Kapex slightly (1-2mm) forward of my long, home made workstation fence, so the cuts register only on the Kapex fence.

My station does not have a fence on either side of the Kapex. Everything is registered against the fence of the saw only (which is calibrated with the blade). Even dressed long stock is seldom straight end to end (unless you work on it immediately after dressing). Some people also put a tape on their fences, but I only go by the tape measure that I use for doing all other dimensions. Except for rough cuts, the tape on my tablesaw is rarely used either.

Simon

[Larry Edgerton]

There are no great miter saws.

The Kapex and Bosch Glide are, I think, ahead of the rest on the issues you mention except for dust collection. For dust collection, the Kapex is the only one that does much at all. It's not great at dust collection, but it's the only one that's even good.

I have the Kapex. I'll be happy with it until someone finally makes something great.

Not true. The new Makita is as good as the Festool in collection and a better saw in my opinion for less than half the cost.

[Paul F Mills]

I am looking for a new miter saw too. The sliding Kobalt I bought a few years ago absolutely sucks, and all I did then was cut some 2x4s for house projects. Now that I am trying to do nice woodworking projects it is almost useless. I have it 90 vertical now but the horizontal cut always flexes. And dust collection sucks.

A Dewalt might be in my future. Or the Kapex so my wife does notice the change in color so much.

[Simon MacGowen]

Not true. The new Makita is as good as the Festool in collection and a better saw in my opinion for less than half the cost.

Between a Makita LS1019L (if that's the one you have) and a Bosch Glide, I'd definitely go with the Makita.

Simon