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Thread: Which Slider Miter Saw to buy?

  1. #16
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    Omga is great, but I think Keith is referring to SCMS, where Omga can be either a CMS or most commonly a miter saw.

    I had a Kapex.

    Pick up an Omga, I picked one up used from a dealer with dust collection and was still spending less than I did when I bought the Kapex and vacuum. Omgaís DC actually collects the dust. I can chop for hours and have a negligible amount of dust to clean up after.
    Last edited by Brian Holcombe; 03-18-2019 at 7:09 PM.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelby Van Patten View Post
    For dust collection, the Kapex is the only one that does much at all. It's not great at dust collection, but it's the only one that's even good.

    I have the Kapex. I'll be happy with it until someone finally makes something great.
    The hold down on the Kapex is only clamp that really works in any miter saws. All others are so crumbersome that they are meaningless.

    I get very good dust extraction with the 36mm hose.

    The bevel control on the Kapex is the best hands down.

    Simon

  3. #18
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    Thanks for all the good insights and comments. Keep them coming!

    For some clarity, l am looking for a slider miter saw and have no interest in a radial arm saw.

  4. #19
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    I disagree. It’s incredibly difficult to adjust for mitering accuracy due to the slot/screw arrangement for adjusting the ring position and the head’s adjustment ring is super difficult to adjust for square. Once it’s adjusted a heavy cut will pull it out of adjustment.

    Clamp was ok, the soft surface eventually migrates off of the face.

    Underpowered motor that can’t make through cuts for anything heavier than 4/4 in one pass.
    Last edited by Brian Holcombe; 03-19-2019 at 12:09 AM. Reason: Clarifying terms
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Holcombe View Post
    I disagree about the bevel control. It’s incredibly difficult to adjust for accuracy due to the slot/screw arrangement and the head is super difficult to adjust. Once it’s adjusted a heavy cut will pull it out of adjustment.

    Clamp was ok, the soft surface eventually migrates off of the face.

    Underpowered motor that can’t make through cuts for anything heavier than 4/4 in one pass.
    I'm surprised by your experience with the bevel control, since as it is the smoothest thing in my saw in terms of setting the bevel angle, especially so compared to the miter setting which often requires two hands for fine angles. Anyone who has tried to set bevels with the Bosch glide and the Kapex will see the difference between day and night.

    The motor issue has been hotly discussed in the festool forum, but I have never recalled any similar take on the bevel control all these years. In fact, Peter Parff (the one who came up with the parff dogs) is on the record to say that he uses the bevel to cut miters (while most choose to use the miter settings). I can dial in precisely and easily through the bevel adjustment knob with one hand the bevel angle (left or right) for compound angle cuts. Both the factory precision and accuracy on the bevels on my saw have been beyond my expectation.

    The clamp requires a trick to be used which unfortunately is not given in the manual (like many other things). Don't just push down the bar and lock the lever -- it will not always give a good grip. I will look for the video that shows how to get a good grip every time (Festool sedge has shown one trick, but his, in my opinion, is not as good as another one whose name has escaped me).

    Edit - Gary K. is the woodworker I had in mind! https://youtu.be/8bvKozRMT1M?t=286
    see how smooth the bevel control is!

    I will come back when I find the segment on the hold-down clamp. Edit - I couldn't find Gary K.'s hold-down video, but here's the one that Sedge produced: https://www.instagram.com/p/BfMTOx5nwPz/ You don't often see Kpaex users do that, because it is not in the manual. Gary's method is better as I said. Hands-down, the Kapex's quick release hold-down clamp is the best ever in any miter saw...but it is pricey if you need an extra one!

    Anyone who wants to know more about the Kapex should watch Gary's videos Parts 1 & 2. It covers many other things like laser, trench cuts, etc. He also has videos on how to set your miter saws to cut dead square...I mean deadly dead square (and that's how my Kapex performs).

    Simon
    Last edited by Simon MacGowen; 03-18-2019 at 10:53 PM.

  6. #21
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    Have had many miter saws over the years, the best I had for close to furniture quality cuts was the original 8" Hitachi slide, more recently had the 12" Bosch glide that was ok - sold it and bought the Makita 1012 which required a little tuning - the cut was not coplaner with the rails, after about 1/2 hour of tweaking got it damn near perfect. But in all reality if you are looking for furniture quality cuts you want a sled on a TS or better yet a slider.

    As far as dust collection goes I just have an open 5" flex off of my cyclone positioned near the slide behind the fence and catches enough for me, I am mostly concerned with eliminating airborne dust which this does.

    Also btw, I tried like 5-6 different saw blades from $30 to $130 and to my shock and surprise the 80 tooth Makita blade won...$33

    Mark

  7. #22
    Love my Kapex 120. Tried all the big players in the market and the Kapex won.
    Accuracy and dust collection was high on my must haves. The laser is fantastic too.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon MacGowen View Post
    I'm surprised by your experience with the bevel control, since as it is the smoothest thing in my saw in terms of setting the bevel angle, especially so compared to the miter setting which often requires two hands for fine angles. Anyone who has tried to set bevels with the Bosch glide and the Kapex will see the difference between day and night.

    The motor issue has been hotly discussed in the festool forum, but I have never recalled any similar take on the bevel control all these years. In fact, Peter Parff (the one who came up with the parff dogs) is on the record to say that he uses the bevel to cut miters (while most choose to use the miter settings). I can dial in precisely and easily through the bevel adjustment knob with one hand the bevel angle (left or right) for compound angle cuts. Both the factory precision and accuracy on the bevels on my saw have been beyond my expectation.

    The clamp requires a trick to be used which unfortunately is not given in the manual (like many other things). Don't just push down the bar and lock the lever -- it will not always give a good grip. I will look for the video that shows how to get a good grip every time (Festool sedge has shown one trick, but his, in my opinion, is not as good as another one whose name has escaped me).

    Edit - Gary K. is the woodworker I had in mind! https://youtu.be/8bvKozRMT1M?t=286
    see how smooth the bevel control is!

    I will come back when I find the segment on the hold-down clamp. Edit - I couldn't find Gary K.'s hold-down video, but here's the one that Sedge produced: https://www.instagram.com/p/BfMTOx5nwPz/ You don't often see Kpaex users do that, because it is not in the manual. Gary's method is better as I said. Hands-down, the Kapex's quick release hold-down clamp is the best ever in any miter saw...but it is pricey if you need an extra one!

    Anyone who wants to know more about the Kapex should watch Gary's videos Parts 1 & 2. It covers many other things like laser, trench cuts, etc. He also has videos on how to set your miter saws to cut dead square...I mean deadly dead square (and that's how my Kapex performs).

    Simon
    Sorry, I'm mixing up terms. Festool is unique in that it has a process control type name for things like the 'bevel control', what came to mind for me was the miter gauge which never stayed in place and the same with the stainless ring around the back of the saw, it never stayed in place. The actual cruising through of adjustments was fine/smooth process but that isn't accuracy to me.

    Accuracy in my mind is that when it says '45 degrees' is it? How about 90? Adjusting the saw square was incredibly difficult and I would always have to plan for miter cuts to be off.

    I spent 1.5 years with the Kapex in the shop, chopping cutting miters with it daily. I have a lot of hours on a Kapex.

    By contrast the Omga saws are fairly easy to adjust to be square and when they're turreted to 45 for a miter the result is accurate.

    I cut this with an OMGA, these are off the saw with no adjustments made by hand afterward:

    (the legs are 1/4" thick by 1" long and 1/4" deep), I cut 12 of these they came out identically.



    I cut 24 corners like this, all this tight.



    Kapex for me would deflect just slightly in every cut and so the cuts would have a very faint convexity to their faces. By comparison here is Omga



    Here is the cut surface on 3x3 white ash:

    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Holcombe View Post
    Sorry, I'm mixing up terms. Festool is unique in that it has a process control type name for things like the 'bevel control', what came to mind for me was the miter gauge which never stayed in place and the same with the stainless ring around the back of the saw, it never stayed in place. The actual cruising through of adjustments was fine/smooth process but that isn't accuracy to me.

    Accuracy in my mind is that when it says '45 degrees' is it? How about 90? Adjusting the saw square was incredibly difficult and I would always have to plan for miter cuts to be off.

    I spent 1.5 years with the Kapex in the shop, chopping cutting miters with it daily. I have a lot of hours on a Kapex.
    Whether it is a miter saw or a table saw, it is up to the new owner to verifyťfinetune the machine's settings when it arrives. Factory settings are subject to tolerance too, including the Kapex.

    Gary Katz has three excellent videos on how to finetune the Kapex for square cuts and miter cuts which I followed after getting my new Kapex (Tips: finetune the miter first before squareness, and use a bungee cord as Gary shows). again, the manual is no match to his videos in finetuning those critical parameters. My Kapex has been cutting perfect squares, miters and bevels.

    But in addition to angles, also check the table and fence for flatness and straightness which would throw off the accuracy too. Those are the areas where user could not fix, and should warrant a saw replacement if they are out.

    Simon

  10. #25
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    Simon, post some photos. I tweaked the most I could out of the Kapex and of you’re getting perfect miters out of it, I’d certainly like to see them.

    You’re preaching to the choir with the rest of this stuff, I went over that machine with a fine tooth comb many, many times.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Holcombe View Post
    Simon, post some photos. I tweaked the most I could out of the Kapex and of you’re getting perfect miters out of it, I’d certainly like to see them.

    You’re preaching to the choir with the rest of this stuff, I went over that machine with a fine tooth comb many, many times.
    I could sense a degree of dissatisfaction or frustration from you with the Kapex, which of course can be due to many factors. Kapex is best known for its precision and accuracy (assuming proper calibration is checked or done by the users (again, Gary Katz has shown how to do that)) among other things (motor issue one of them!). There are many Kapex videos out there one can search about how good it cuts miters or angled pieces. Peter Parffit, a hobbyist, has done many videos and here is one I found:

    https://youtu.be/FemIf5O0mXQ?t=208

    Even though I have no images to share, please be assured that my Kapex performs as well as (if not better than) his in all aspects.

    If you aren't getting good results, I recommend that you review Gary's videos AFTER checking that your saw's table and fences are flat, straight and square to each other (and of course that the blade cuts true). I have not come across any miter saw calibration method better than Gary's (Kapex was used in his calibration videos).

    Simon
    Last edited by Simon MacGowen; 03-19-2019 at 1:40 PM.

  12. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Heffernan View Post
    Thanks for all the good insights and comments. Keep them coming!

    For some clarity, l am looking for a slider miter saw and have no interest in a radial arm saw.
    Please see the posts I have exchanged with Brian on this thread.

    If someone asked me if they should get a Kapex (assuming money isn't an issue), this is what I'd say:

    If you believe the motor problem is isolated and limited to within the normal failure rate of a machine, then get the Kapex which is covered by a three year warranty.

    Otherwise, get something else.

    I am not a Festool salesman, so I don't need to promote it.

    I paid hard earned cash for my Kapex, and have been 101% happy with its quality of cuts, dust extraction (36mm hose), hold down, smoothness of operation (I don't like the glide as you need to push harder to counter the spring), lasers, variable speed control, etc. The only part I am not familiar with is the crown molding thing as I don't do home renovation.

    Motor/underpower issue? I have not experienced it...touching wood (and my saw is as old as, probably older than, Peter Parffit's).

    By the way, I wouldn't recommend it for job site use, because one does not need a Kapex's supreme quality to do job site work! Use a saw that costs $200 - $300 for carpentry work.

    Simon
    Last edited by Simon MacGowen; 03-19-2019 at 1:39 PM.

  13. #28
    I have the Dewalt DWS780 and it's generally great; I really like the shadow light on it and the cuts have been accurate so far. My biggest complaints are that it does need a ton of space front to back and dust collection is pretty lousy. If I could do it again, I'd probably get a Bosch glide instead due to the shorter depth required.

  14. #29
    I have a 10Ē Hitachi that Iíve used for about 8 years. The holdown clamp is not great but itís been a good saw. Cuts are smooth and accurate

  15. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Simon MacGowen View Post
    Please see the posts I have exchanged with Brian on this thread.

    If someone asked me if they should get a Kapex (assuming money isn't an issue), this is what I'd say:

    If you believe the motor problem is isolated and limited to within the normal failure rate of a machine, then get the Kapex which is covered by a three year warranty.

    Otherwise, get something else.

    I am not a Festool salesman, so I don't need to promote it.

    I paid hard earned cash for my Kapex, and have been 101% happy with its quality of cuts, dust extraction (36mm hose), hold down, smoothness of operation (I don't like the glide as you need to push harder to counter the spring), lasers, variable speed control, etc. The only part I am not familiar with is the crown molding thing as I don't do home renovation.

    Motor/underpower issue? I have not experienced it...touching wood (and my saw is as old as, probably older than, Peter Parffit's).

    By the way, I wouldn't recommend it for job site use, because one does not need a Kapex's supreme quality to do job site work! Use a saw that costs $200 - $300 for carpentry work.

    Simon

    This is really makes it sound like you are a salesman. Exactly like one.

    Tell us us why one doesn’t NEED a saw of supreme quality for site work ? By an equally applied standard, one would not need a supreme quality saw in a shop setting either. Especially a “home shop”. We do work in homes costing tens of millions. A $200 saw would look out of place in those. But........................

    A skilled craftsman can can do trim work with just about any saw that has a good and sharp blade. Even a 20 year old Craftsman that cost 75 bucks. A noob isn’t likely to make kerf cuts needed for radiused baseboard with any saw, even a Kapex.

    Though I’m not a fan of the saw personally, its stand system is arguably one of the best and lightest mobile solutions on the market. Making it a very strong contender for someone doing sitework, despite its lofty price tag.

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