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Thread: How do you plane the top of a box flush

  1. #1

    How do you plane the top of a box flush

    Are there any tricks to planing the top of a box flush?
    In this case I made a dovetailed box, and glued it up with bottom and top attached. The idea being to saw off the top and thus create the lid.

    Unfortunately, there was a little rocking during four runs through the table saw and now I have some rough edges to flush on top and bottom. I've run into this issue of flush planing four adjacent edges before on picture frames and always get stuck with sloped edges, tearout when going from longrain to cross-grain, etc...

    Is there a correct way to do this?

    Box pic prior to cutting, for referencecherrybox.jpg

  2. #2
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    Make sure the plane blades are as sharp as can be. Take very light cuts to help reduce tear out. A scraper may also help.

    A recent FWW tip was to make blocks with ribs on them the same thickness as your saw blade. Then as the box is cut these can be slipped into the kerf and held in place with rubber bands to help keep the box from flexing while sawing.ß

    jtk
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  3. #3
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    Another method I use is to adhear some 150 grit sandpaper to a flat surface (plate glass, granite, table saw, etc), then sand the top and box until they mate. I put a pencil mark all around the edges to be sanded to know when I’ve gotting it all flat. I rotate the pieces after a number of strokes on the sandpaper to make up for any uneven pressure. Go light on the pressure and be careful not to lean the pieces as it is very easy to round over the corners.

    Very nice looking box, by the way!

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Mueller View Post
    Another method I use is to adhere some 150 grit sandpaper to a flat surface (plate glass, granite, table saw, etc), then sand the top and box until they mate. I put a pencil mark all around the edges to be sanded to know when I’ve gotten it all flat. I rotate the pieces after a number of strokes on the sandpaper to make up for any uneven pressure. Go light on the pressure and be careful not to lean the pieces as it is very easy to round over the corners.

    Very nice looking box, by the way!
    This is what I do, also. I have some sandpaper from those giant belt sanders that I cut and glue on to MDF (with glue that has no water in it). The MDF is perhaps 30" by 30". I move the box over the sandpaper essentially as described my Phil.

    The standard way to make a box with a lid is to make a closed box and then cut the top off. You'll never cut perfectly, no matter what technique you use (bandsaw, table saw, hand saw). To get a good fitting top, you have to sand the upper surface of the lower part of the box, and the bottom of the top. Done correctly, you can get a top that fits exactly.

    I did a tutorial on making a jewelry box and in that tutorial I have a picture of one of my big sanding boards. I think the sanding board is on the second page.

    Mike
    Last edited by Mike Henderson; 03-13-2019 at 12:58 AM. Reason: spelling
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    A recent FWW tip was to make blocks with ribs on them the same thickness as your saw blade. Then as the box is cut these can be slipped into the kerf and held in place with rubber bands to help keep the box from flexing while sawing.ß

    jtk
    I use spacers that I put into the saw kerf when I saw the top off of a box and I've never had one come out perfectly.

    Another approach I tried is to not cut completely through the sides - just leave a very thin piece of wood holding the top on. Then, after you've cut all four sides, use a knife to finish the cut. That has not given me perfectly fitting tops either. I still have to sand the interface.

    I don't see any way to get a perfect match using a hand plane. The sanding board is the only thing that has ever worked for me.

    Mike

    [Here's a couple of blade spacers that I use - you need three of them when cutting the top off of a box. The mahogany one is for a standard thickness blade and the walnut one is for a very thin blade that I have and often use to cut the top off of boxes. I use that thin blade because it removes less wood, leading to a better grain match between the top and bottom. For a very thin kerf, I've hand cut using a Japanese saw, but that doesn't give a perfect surface, either.

    The first picture is a top view and the second is a somewhat side view. The best way to make these is to cut a groove with your blade and then make a piece of wood that will just fit into the groove. That will match the width of the kerf of your blade.]

    Blade-spacers001.jpg Blade-spacers002.jpg
    Last edited by Mike Henderson; 03-13-2019 at 1:02 AM.
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  6. #6
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    I would try a scraper and or a pad sander. Maybe both could be used.
    Or, http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/Search.aspx?action=n
    Last edited by lowell holmes; 03-13-2019 at 5:03 AM.

  7. #7
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    A method I've used successfully many times is to set the depth of cut on your table saw about 1/32" short of cutting all the way through. Finish the cut with a stanley knife. The feathery remnants usually will just snap off. If not. use a small block plane set for a super light cut to bring the surfaces flush. Use the sandpaper trick if you need to true things up, but I've never had to.
    Sharp solves all manner of problems.

  8. #8
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    I've only done this kind of cut on a bandsaw so I've always had to clean up with a plane. You need to be very sharp, have a light depth of cut so that you can easily control the tool, and it's a good idea to set the chipbreaker close. Then I basically drive the plane around in a circle. Start out on one of the long sides, and as you get close to the corner skew the plane to about 45 degrees, all the while keeping the plane in the cut. Make the corner while skewed like that, and as you get onto the next side straighten the plane out again, then skew again as you come to the next corner. The idea is that you are always skewed when you are cutting crossgrain. That minimizes tearout/fuzziness. Once you get a full shaving all the way along the top length of the box it's usually good to go. You can set the top on the bottom and see if there's any light. If there is, then take a few shavings off the high corners. Not that much different than jointing an edge. If you are very sharp and take light passes, you can get a good enough finish that you won't need to sand.

  9. #9
    With a marking gauge or panel gauge, mark the box with two lines 1/8 inch apart. Use a back saw to saw between the lines. Then you still have the marked lines on both bottom and lid, and can plane to the lines.

    By the way, it is nice to make a wide dovetail pin at the place where the box is to be sawn apart so that you have half pins left when you do the sawing. A 5/8 wide pin would yield a 1/4" half pin for the top, a 1/4" half pin for the bottom, and 1/8 for kerf and cleaning up. Plan ahead.

  10. #10
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    If possible, watch this video at about 6:53. Garrett just planes right around the outer edges. I have seen him do this in other videos and picked up this technique for leveling drawers and so forth.
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  11. #11
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    Glenn, for carcases, such as the one in the Garrett video, I would also plane around the circumference. However, I would not do it that way here.

    The fitting of a door to the front is not as critical as fitting lid to a box where the sides must not show a gap. The box is required to be exactly parallel on four sides with the lid. All four sides of the box need to be coplanar. All four sides of the lid also need to be coplanar. To do this, I would either: (1) rub the edges on a flat surface to find the high spots, and then plane them down, or (2) rub the edges on sandpaper and flatten them that way.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  12. #12
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    When cutting the top off a box, raise the blade above the table 1/32 higher than the thickness of the side. Then cut through the two short sides of the box first. Then lower the blade so it is 1/64" to 1/32" lower than the thickness of the side. Cut one long side with this lowered blade. Then raise the blade back up so it will cut all the way through and cut the fourth side. Use a sharp knife to slice through the thin material you left on the one side of the box and sand or plane it smooth.
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  13. #13
    For a smaller item like this I use method mentioned already of fixing sandpaper to a flat surface and lapping. Another common way of doing this is to make a long sanding flat sanding block by wedging an appropriate sized piece of wood inside a sanding belt.

  14. #14
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    double beaded.JPG
    Sometimes a double bead can help guide the saw...
    sawn lid.JPG
    To where I saw between the beads..
    plane work.JPG
    Plane is long enough to reach everywhere, evenly..
    corner joints.JPG
    Corner joints were full blind, mitered box joints..
    front view.JPG
    Add a pair of hinges, and some finish...
    Joints?
    opened up.JPG
    Opened..
    two done.JPG
    Closed up for a dry fit.

  15. #15
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    Another idea

    If you make a lot of boxes, and I make a lot of boxes, it may be worth it to take a look at this idea. I came up with this while I was trying to get some boxes finished for an upcoming show and had shoulder issues ( which eventually led to shoulder surgery) and could not use the "sandpaper on flat surface idea" which I've used for years. At first, I experimented with a $28 sander from Harbor Freight before investing in a better Makita Sander. The Harbor Freight sander worked OK but vibration and noise was an issue for me. I made a platen from Baltic Birch 1/2" ply and covered it with adhesive hook/loop material(from Klingspor, I think). Once I had decided that the concept was good enough to pursue I made a "holder" that I could clamp in the bench vice to secure the sander in place. I matched up holes in the platen for large sheets of sandpaper so I could use dust collection on the Makita.
    It actually gave me a very flat surface and by starting out with course grit and proceeding to finer grits It allows the endgrain to really show when you open the box green to show when you open the box.
    I realize that unless you are making a lot of boxes, this is over the top time and cost wise. But, for me, it was a timesaver and gave good results.
    Pictures are of HF sander , a rough grit sanding on an edge and then the latest version of the Makita sander set up.

    Jim
    20180928_195446.jpg20180928_195437.jpg20180928_203612.jpg20181004_161826.jpg20181004_161830.jpg20181004_161833.jpg

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