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Thread: How do you plane the top of a box flush

  1. #16
    It seems you need to be a member to watch Garret's video.
    Here's Rob demonstrating this at 7 mins into his video..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xInTrbqGva0

    Good luck
    Tom

  2. #17
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    Tom, as noted re Garrett's video, Rob is not planing mating surfaces.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  3. #18
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    Use the table saw and rip fence to make trim cuts, taking off just a little with each pass. After doing this to get things basically flat you can finish by sanding if need be.
    I

  4. #19
    Thank You everyone for the replies!

    I ended up sending the box top and bottom through the planer (skewed to avoid tearout) and taking very light passes off the mating edges, to do the majority of the work. Then I laid out strips of 150 grit psa sandpaper on a granite block and sanded the edges smooth. Worked like a charm with no rounding over.

    In the future I think I will try some of the shimming techniques described here, maybe in conjunction with sawing close to, but not through, the box, and finishing off with a knife or japanese pullsaw, followed by sanding and/or light planing. Also, I think my table saw insert was sitting ever so slightly below the plane of the table, and that prevented the box from riding smoothly through the cuts. I'll do this on a sled next time.

    The box got smaller through all this trial and error, but at least now it's seamless, and I've learned alot. I just couldn't get it out of my head that I Should be able to do this with a plane, even as my results proved conclusively otherwise.

    Jesse

  5. #20
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    Glad it worked out for you Jesse. Yes, I too, have made a few boxes smaller than the original plan! On the times I’ve really botched the sanding with a dip in one corner and don’t want to keep sanding it more, put a small chamfer around the outer edges of the both the top and bottom. It’s actually not a bad look and can hide a few evils when necessary.

  6. #21
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    Thanks for sharing that Jim. Looks like a nice evening project. I have an old 1/4 sheet Bosch sander I may have to try that with.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Cohen View Post
    Glenn, for carcases, such as the one in the Garrett video, I would also plane around the circumference. However, I would not do it that way here.

    The fitting of a door to the front is not as critical as fitting lid to a box where the sides must not show a gap. The box is required to be exactly parallel on four sides with the lid. All four sides of the box need to be coplanar. All four sides of the lid also need to be coplanar. To do this, I would either: (1) rub the edges on a flat surface to find the high spots, and then plane them down, or (2) rub the edges on sandpaper and flatten them that way.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Thanks Derek. Excellent point on the gap consistency. That is just why I have a piece of melamine with sandpaper spray-adhesive attached
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  8. #23
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    There's another method I learned in college. During a design studio class we were discussing assemblies, and particularly the mating surfaces of different parts. The context was consumer products but it's still applicable. The gist of the lesson was that if achieving a seamless mating surface was all but impossible due to part tolerances, manufacturing processes, dissimilar materials, etc.; don't even try. Instead build in a "reveal" feature that hides the sins and makes it look like you intended it to look just the way it looks.

    I've incorporated tiny chamfers or rabbets between box tops and bottoms, effectively hiding the seam behind a design element. The feature creates a nice shadow line and can also offer a thumbnail grip for opening the lid. Most snap together plastic assemblies use this approach. Take a look at the case of almost any piece of consumer electronics or computer gear for an example.
    Sharp solves all manner of problems.

  9. #24
    Is it long enough to go through a drum sander? Seems like something I would try. Very light pass with your highest grit. I've never done that, it's just an idea that popped up reading this thread. I'm probably way off base , so someone can come along and tell me it doesn't work and I would probably NOT try it.

  10. #25
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    I use my drum sander on all the boxes that I make. On the shorter boxes, I will hot glue longer strips of wood to the sides of the boxes to get enough length to pass through the sander.
    Joe

  11. #26
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    Sounds like the consensus is that it's virtually impossible to do with a hand plane? I have to disagree. It is not much different than jointing for a perfect glue line on a panel edge, you are just going around the perimeter of a box instead of in a straight line. Plane a little, then put the top on the bottom and check for gaps. Note the high spots, plane those down. If one of the edges is sloped, you correct it just like you'd correct an out of square edge when jointing for a panel glue up. In fact, if you use a plane long enough so that it can always be in contact with two sides of the box, then any sloping issue will tend to correct itself. I like to use a #8 or 5-1/2 for this reason. But I'm pretty sure I could do it with my #3.

    If you have a sandpaper lap big enough, then of course that will guarantee a good result. But it's a little annoying to set up and then clean the lap after I'm done (at least in my experience PSA paper tends to be tenacious and hard to remove). I don't have a drum sander, and don't really want one (mostly because I am out of space for new tools). If a plane is sharp and ready to go, I'd rather be able to use that.

  12. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Hazelwood View Post
    Sounds like the consensus is that it's virtually impossible to do with a hand plane? I have to disagree. It is not much different than jointing for a perfect glue line on a panel edge, you are just going around the perimeter of a box instead of in a straight line. Plane a little, then put the top on the bottom and check for gaps. Note the high spots, plane those down. If one of the edges is sloped, you correct it just like you'd correct an out of square edge when jointing for a panel glue up. In fact, if you use a plane long enough so that it can always be in contact with two sides of the box, then any sloping issue will tend to correct itself. I like to use a #8 or 5-1/2 for this reason. But I'm pretty sure I could do it with my #3.

    If you have a sandpaper lap big enough, then of course that will guarantee a good result. But it's a little annoying to set up and then clean the lap after I'm done (at least in my experience PSA paper tends to be tenacious and hard to remove). I don't have a drum sander, and don't really want one (mostly because I am out of space for new tools). If a plane is sharp and ready to go, I'd rather be able to use that.
    I'm sure it's possible to plane a box flat. But I'd probably wind up with a pancake as I kept taking just a bit off here and there to try to get everything flat.

    While it may not be traditional, a sanding board is much easier for me to use. I put a pencil or chalk line around the surface and then move the box or top over the sanding board until the mark is gone from all parts of the box or top. If the sanding board is flat, and if I was careful in moving the box over the surface, the top of the box will be flat and the sides will not be angled in or out. Same for the top of the box.

    Here's a few sanding boards I've made. I like to put a coarse sandpaper on one side and a finer sandpaper on the other side. I get one of those big belts that the belt sanders use (like the Timesaver). I found some on Craigslist that someone was selling cheap because the glue holding the belts together had failed (they were new but had been in storage for years and the glue failed).

    In gluing the belt to MDF, do not use a water based glue - it will cause the MDF to warp. I use 3M spray adhesive and spray the MDF and the belt. Apply the belt like Formica.
    Sanding-boards.jpg

    I teach a box making class and use this with my students. Storing the sanding boards is not a problem - just lean them against the wall or your bench.

    Mike
    Last edited by Mike Henderson; 03-15-2019 at 1:27 PM.
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  13. #28
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    Not terribly difficult to plane the gap tight. Just take off where you need it removed. Fit the hinges afterward and set their depth not to the leaves but to a zero gap fit (or nearly, I usually shoot for a few thou gap) to make life easier.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  14. #29
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    I also move the plane around the box, ala Paul Sellers method. Whatever sanding that is left is minimal.

  15. #30
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    I think that both Brian and I are indicating that planing around the box comes later. Finding (rubbing) the high spots and planing only those comes first.

    Think of jointing an edge. Remove the high spots before planing the length.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

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