Popular Woodworking: If We Pool Our Spare Change, ... .

[Noah Magnuson]

I was a contributor until I witnessed the whole Stan C. exchange. Now I just stop in occasionally, but quit contributing.

[Mike Kreinhop]

....it is just too difficult to punch in the user name and password on the small I-phone.

I visit almost daily using my iPhone, and can't remember the last time I had to enter my username and password. I am always logged into my SMC account on my iPhone.

[Simon MacGowen]

I visit almost daily using my iPhone, and can't remember the last time I had to enter my username and password. I am always logged into my SMC account on my iPhone.

The reason that I don't sign in most of the time unless I have to make a post whether using the phone or computer is that I don't get to see some of the posts if I am logged in, and I would have to look "deeper" to locate them. I don't have this kind of problem when I am not logged in, or with other forums. That might be a limitation of this forum software. Also, other forums allow me to see the posted images without signing in.

But even when I am browsing other forums, I still prefer not to sign in unless I want to post something.

Simon

[Frederick Skelly]

Mr. Outten,
Sure, perhaps no revenue - but for a forum, the primary (perhaps only?) source of value. I am here, and I imagine most are here, due to the high caliber of expertise and knowledge of the visitors on this forum - the ones who so generously answer questions and provide their insight.

I worry you're about to cut off your nose to spite your face. You have a beautiful resource and community here, and you're about to damage it - perhaps irrevocably.

In the future, how might someone come to the conclusion that they might want to become a member of this community if they're not allowed to visit?

If the costs of running the forum are outpacing your ability to keep up perhaps the community can make some recommendations for cost savings? For alternative software, hosting providers, etc?

We've been discussing this matter for about 2 years, IIRC. I'd be willing to bet Keith has looked into most every option we'd think of. The clock has apparently run out. Not enough people chose to become Contributors when it was raised. (Their reasons are none of my business.) If Keith doesnt take action soon, this forum closes down. I agree we are going to lose enormously by going subscription only. Some of our most knowlegable posters do not contribute monetarily. We will lose all that. But we lose even more if SMC shuts down.

[Derek Cohen]

I will repeat the advice I left on another thread: if revenue from adverts is needed, and ad blockers on the laptops/phones/tablets of viewers are preventing this, then de-activate ad blockers. Many websites have software capable of determining whether the viewer is doing so, and alerts them to switch it off. They cannot view anything with it on (blocked). Once switched off, they can view everything. Why does SMC not do this?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Frederick Skelly]

I will repeat the advice I left on another thread: if revenue from adverts is needed, and ad blockers on the laptops/phones/tablets of viewers are preventing this, then de-activate ad blockers. Many websites have software capable of determining whether the viewer is doing so, and alerts them to switch it off. They cannot view anything with it on (blocked). Once switched off, they can view everything. Why does SMC not do this?

Regards from Perth

Derek

Good idea Derek, if v-bulletin supports it. If not, Keith said he wasnt able to have custom software written.

[Dean Arthur]

Derek,


If people are using ad blockers it means they don't want to view ads.


It's amazing how indoctrinated we've all become that we think there is some sort of moral obligation to endure advertisement. There is not. Advertisement is/was lucrative, no doubt, but if you've browsed the web anytime in the last decade - massively intrusive (I'm speaking generally, not in the context of SMC).


We've already been down this road with email. You used to get mountains of spam every day for a few years, then people got tired of it and the world moved on (there's still spam of course, but 99% of people don't see much of it anymore, thank heavens).


What is effective are trustworthy experts - particularly for niche products like woodworking tools. Derek, you have no idea how many Veritas planes you have sold because people see you as unbiased and, more important, knowledgeable. That is "advertisement" I have a lot of patience for (and actively seek out).


You advocate for SMC to compel users to turn on ads, etc., and though this has proven to be highly ineffective, I can see the allure of the idea for content creators. For a forum, the members (previously visitors) are the content creators. They are also the audience. I've noticed people here put a lot of care into their posts and projects because they know the audience will appreciate it.


The "cost" of visitors is negligible. Bandwidth, disk space, processing power - it's nothing for a site this size. The front page states the most users ever online at once was 6,025 (currently it's about 1000). That may sound like a lot but it is negligible.


I get the counter argument, and really, this is not an argument. You have a bunch of people who enjoy this place and would hate to see it become less than it is. And you have Mr. Outten who has expectations for what he is receiving versus the time, effort and money he is willing to expend. To me a forum isn't a great money making proposition, particularly a small one like this. But it is invaluable.


It's just obvious that not allowing visitors is going to eliminate the possibility for new membership and therefore new blood and ideas, and this small website will immediately shrink from a 1000 visitors to a couple of hundred, and then less and less. And the cost savings for all of this will be close enough to zero.


Mr. Outten has mentioned that he needs help to "support our costs including new hardware, software and bandwidth."


For what it's worth, here is my support:


"new hardware" and "bandwidth"


This is an easy one. Do not pay for new hardware, or hardware at all for that matter. If you're concerned with bandwidth for a site this size something is either misconfigured or you are paying too much.


Instead use what's called a virtual private server. The two best ones at the moment for a site this size are Linode and Digital Ocean. Please look at them.


$20 a month on either provider will be more than enough. For this you will get 4 Terabytes of data transfer, 80 GB of SSD space, static ip, 99.99% uptime (this is measured, not just marketing hyperbole), and you can downgrade or upgrade space, bandwidth, whatever - anytime you want. These resources are allocated to you, you do not share them as you might with a shared reseller hosts. You can rely on them and they will serve you much better than keeping a physical server underneath your desk, in the closet, etc.


You don't have to support photo uploads - just recommend users to use their preferred storage service and link them. I use Backblaze B2, but that would be too technical for most users here. Imgur seems to be the standard right now.


"software"


You mentioned a preference for transitioning over to xenforo. That's probably a great choice (go where the developers go, not the management). Their yearly subscription is $160 plus I assume a one time fee of $150 to buy the vBulletin Big Board importer program so you can transfer over the site in its current configuration.


Or just keep using vBulletin, honestly. Seems to work fine - and in that case vBulletin is $250 per year - plus whatever add ons you want. That's reasonable enough.


And then there's the domain name for less than $10 at your registrar spirit domains, and use lets encrypt for you ssl certificate (which is free).


So nearly ever server in the world runs off a version of Linux, which is free. Plus the PHP language for the forum software, which is free, plus whatever database you are using (PostgreSQL, mongoDB, etc - they're all free). This software is rock solid. It's free of course but not free to setup, you need the expertise.


The expertise to implement these is of course not free. You seem to have a developer you're comfortable working with. Run this by him. If he does not agree you're welcome to PM me and I will be happy to give you my honest opinion.

[Dan Carroll]

Restucting. This is a Chapter 11, and the are looking for a buyer. It is likely only some of the publications will find a market and the likely buyer will be an online retailer that can make it work, not a publisher.

[Marshall Harrison]

I'm willing to step mup to the plate. I don't see any ads but I'm not opposed to seeing them. Just please don't do like some sites and have an ad between each post. That is just too much and very aggravating.