Popular Woodworking: If We Pool Our Spare Change, ... .

[Simon MacGowen]

Just beware the fine print. They send you ONE renewal notice by mail and you will be auto-renewed if you don’t opt out. I’m willing to bet that renewal will be at the $370 rate.

$370, or more, or less, depending on what has happened between now and one year later.

I know from experience with other service providers that they have loyalty departments to keep people from leaving. When you call to cancel (cable say), they cut your rates to keep you on board. Of course, it is often because they have reduced the rates for new sign-ups long before you called!!!

I hate auto-renewals. Fine Woodworking allows you to renew online, but if you want to cancel mid-way, you have to call, and can't do that online (even via your logged in account). A lot of businesses (big and small), including telecomm, do that these days.

My digital diary reminds me of everything from appointments to (desired) renewals to cancellations.

Simon

[Marshall Harrison]

Just beware the fine print. They send you ONE renewal notice by mail and you will be auto-renewed if you don’t opt out. I’m willing to bet that renewal will be at the $370 rate.

Attachment 405559

Thanks for the warning Malcom. I set a calendar reminder to cancel for March 1, 2020. But that is all dependent on finding where to cancel on their website. The website is'n very user friendly and you have to hunt for even the simplest things.

[Simon MacGowen]

The website is'n very user friendly and you have to hunt for even the simplest things.

Sounds like the Pop Wood's. I suspect when you add things to an old platform which wasn't designed for digital contents, you are patching up things with inefficiency. I would contact their customer service for direct links to or steps on the contents you want to retrieve.

Simon

[Dan Hall]

Maggie looks like she's got some Dobergirl in her. I've been owned by Doberman Pincers most of my life. Great dogs, especially the females. Anyway, of the three magazines I think Kitplane is the best these days. Sport Aviation has gone completely Brietling all the way. Advertising over content. That one and AOPA I take so that they continue their interface with congress. As it turns out though I'm in the midst of selling off the whole fleet at the moment. Hangar fees, insurance and fuel costs have overwhelmed my retirement budget. I like to do other stuff as well. My Starduster SA-100 has left the building and there are two others to go.

[Dean Arthur]

Mr. Outten,

Visitors today have no value since they consume resources and provide absolutely no source of revenue.

Sure, perhaps no revenue - but for a forum, the primary (perhaps only?) source of value. I am here, and I imagine most are here, due to the high caliber of expertise and knowledge of the visitors on this forum - the ones who so generously answer questions and provide their insight.


I worry you're about to cut off your nose to spite your face. You have a beautiful resource and community here, and you're about to damage it - perhaps irrevocably. I say that now because in the future you might decry that these "dang visitors" were blocking my ads, and that's why the site withered.


That will not be the reason. It will be because you mistook revenue for value, and hadn't discovered the appropriate way to get one from the other - hurting both in the process.

The internet is an interesting phenomenon because in some ways it follows the constructs we're used to, and in others not so much. You mentioned "the organizations you support survive" which is absolutley true. But a forum (in the larger sense) lives and dies on the quality of content and activity of the community - which, again, is obviously currently the case.

In the future, how might someone come to the conclusion that they might want to become a member of this community if they're not allowed to visit?


If the costs of running the forum are outpacing your ability to keep up perhaps the community can make some recommendations for cost savings? For alternative software, hosting providers, etc?

[JimA Thornton]

I subscribed to FW's On-line content at the monthly rate last fall. I cancelled that (online) a couple of weeks ago. Got a prompt e-mail from them verifying that I was cancelled. No problem at all. I'll probably renew again this fall for the winter months.

[Nicholas Lawrence]

Mr. Arthur:

I don’t know the right thing to do to preserve the forum, but I wanted to mention that I don’t think anyone who posts here is a “visitor” as Keith is using that term.

If you look at the bottom of the main page it lists who is online. As I type this it shows 24 “members” and 114 “guests.” The members consist of “members” (who are registered but do not pay the $6 per year to be a “contributor”) and “contributors” (who pay the $6 per year).

The unregistered guests who are just browsing without any account are the folks I think Keith is talking about as “visitors.” They are not producing revenue (because of ad-blocking), and they are also not contributing by answering questions, etc.

[JimA Thornton]

Many forums work with a donation system. I wonder if that might work here? Solves the problem of access for newcomers and hopefully enough revenue to make it worthwhile for the owner to keep it running.

[Dan Hall]

I do not use ad blocking anywhere, and I watch the ads one time at least. I never the less will continue to browse until I make a commitment to the hobby (not a pro) and the site. If one can't try before one buys the site will fail. Without a doubt. If more revenue is needed ownership can track visitors and give them a generous free period in which to decide.

I currently contribute $5 A MONTH to several forums. Six bucks is a couple of cups of coffee or one fancy beer. Not much.

I do not like PayPal because of it's nasty fee structure. I'll send a one time $6 but will not make it monthly until I decide. Oh, with contributor status I would like to keep banner ads on. Is that possible.

[Dan Hall]

I got sucked into that vortex using PayPal as a payment source. The company that I had initially signed up with failed to disclose that it was an auto renew membership at $35/month. I was trying to locate a relative. I tried to persuade PayPal to credit me but they refused. I don't care much for those people any more. With a bank credit card one simply tells the bank to shut off payment and it's a done deal.

Paypal loves the auto renew business.

[ken hatch]

Maggie looks like she's got some Dobergirl in her. I've been owned by Doberman Pincers most of my life. Great dogs, especially the females. Anyway, of the three magazines I think Kitplane is the best these days. Sport Aviation has gone completely Brietling all the way. Advertising over content. That one and AOPA I take so that they continue their interface with congress. As it turns out though I'm in the midst of selling off the whole fleet at the moment. Hangar fees, insurance and fuel costs have overwhelmed my retirement budget. I like to do other stuff as well. My Starduster SA-100 has left the building and there are two others to go.

Dan,

Maggie is a Chocolate Lab. Both she and Sam are rescue dogs.

I've been out of the boat business for several years and we sold our Piper Pacer a couple of years ago. The only high draw items left are the shop and the motorhome. I expect a year or two after I finally retire the motorhome will go and only the shop will stay. It's good to simplify.

I spent too many years with an airplane strapped to my butt to want to read about 'em, even if the mags were well written and they are not. It's pretty much the same with woodworking mags.

ken

[Marshall Harrison]

Many forums work with a donation system. I wonder if that might work here? Solves the problem of access for newcomers and hopefully enough revenue to make it worthwhile for the owner to keep it running.

That is basically what we have now. Some of us are contributors and thus using the donation system and get extra privileges. Some are just members without some of the privileges contributors get. And then there are guests that can only read the posts without contributing.

[Rob Damon]

In about one week we will eliminate all Visitor access here.

I fully understand your situation and sadly I agree.

Just curious. I am now a contributor, but 99% of the time I do not log in unless I am planning on posting something or viewing a jpg and just visit as a non-logged on "visitor." It is quicker and easier to do on a smartphone by not logging in.

Since the website software has no way of knowing if someone that is not logged in is a visitor/non-contributor or a visitor/contributor, I guess I won't be visiting anymore/as often (which I do now visit multiple times a day) even though I am a contributor....it is just too difficult to punch in the user name and password on the small I-phone.

This makes me curious if the site statics are accurate.
If you have 10000 active hits today. 5000 are contributors, 5000 are not contributors. Only 20 of the contributors actually take the time to log into the site. The stats would show that 20 contributors are supporting 9980 non-contributing visitors when in fact you really have 5000 contributors, 20 log in and 4980 do not long it, like me.

Plus how many people that don't contribute financially but do contribute intellectual property to the site that helps the site be what it is today. Without intellectual contributions they is nothing to visit for. Hopefully 99% of the intellectual contribution here comes from the financial supporting members and not from the non financially support members.

[J. Greg Jones]

....it is just too difficult to punch in the user name and password on the small I-phone.

Just check the box to 'Remember Me' when you login and in the future the login will happen automatically. Also, if presented with the option to save the login info in your iCloud Keychain, say yes. It's not necessary to remember secure passwords/enter them manually these days.

[Derek Cohen]

I got sucked into that vortex using PayPal as a payment source. The company that I had initially signed up with failed to disclose that it was an auto renew membership at $35/month. I was trying to locate a relative. I tried to persuade PayPal to credit me but they refused. I don't care much for those people any more. With a bank credit card one simply tells the bank to shut off payment and it's a done deal.

Paypal loves the auto renew business.

Dan, you can cancell automatic payments in PayPal, itself.

You need to check what automatic payments are still active or inactive. Do this periodically.

Regards from Perth

Derek